🚀 go-pugleaf

In ba.general Disgruntled Customer <nowhere@nowhow.com> wrote:
> Merlin Dorfman <dorfman@green.rahul.net> enscribed:
>> In ba.general Disgruntled Customer <nowhere@nowhow.com> wrote:
>> > Merlin Dorfman <dorfman@green.rahul.net> enscribed:
>> 
>> >>      How about an overwhelming vote for a party (Hamas) that has the
>> >> clearly stated objective of eliminating Israel.
>> 
>> > And Netanyahu and Likud are dedicated to the notion of a free, independent, and viable Palestine? What terrorism has Hamas done since they were elected?
>> 
>>      That wasn't the question.  You asked for a cite that most Palestinians
>> don't want a two-state solution.  Provided the cite, you changed the
>> subject.

> Nice bit of evasion. Now if your hypocrisy was merely rotting away your own soul, I wouldn't care. But its because of turkeys like you that America gives unconditional support to Israel, and that has pissed off all potential Arab allies who could save our butts in Iraq. 

     Evasion???  You change the subject, I call you on it, and you
accuse me of evasion.  Nice bit of evasion.
     I'd be interested in what Arab allies you think could save our
butts in Iraq.  Saudi Arabia?  Egypt?  The Emirates?  What could
they do?  No way they are going to put their people in that
crossfire.  They might send money, to help us with our massive
budget deficit, but even that seems unlikely.
     And finally let's be clear that Israel is an excuse our noble
Arab allies, and other Arabs/Muslims, use to deflect the attention
of their oppressed people from what lousy governments they have.  If
Israel disappeared tomorrow it wouldn't solve any of the Arab/Muslim
world's problems.  

>>      (BTW I don't understand your statement at all.  Neither Likud
>> nor Netanyahu are in power.  Likud was last elected 4-5 years ago,
>> Netanyahu longer than that.  Thus, Hamas has done extensive
>> terrorism since they were last elected.)

> Unless you're defining 'terrorism' as 'not liking Israel,' you're lying. Which, again, if it were only affecting you, it wouldn't concern me. But you're killing American soldiers. Doesn't matter whether you and Bush don't think there's a linkage between Palestine and Iraq, or Golan Heights and Iraq, or installing the Shah and Iraq. It does matter that the people we need to deal with do link these issues.

     Again you change the subject.  You cite Likud and Netanyahu, but
the current government is Kadima and Sharon/Olmert.  Is that what you
meant?  Even if it is, you are wrong--terrorism has continued.  Gaza
is in pretty much a state of anarchy--before Israel re-invaded, the
resemblance to Weimar Germany was striking.  The government had no
authority, and armed gangs representing various factions roamed the
streets.  Some of these factions carried out terrorism; the fence
reduced but did not eliminate suicide bombing, and as you recall a
faction attacked across the border, killed two soldiers and kidnapped
one, which is the reason for the re-invasion.  (It might have been
better to ignore it and allow the spectacle of anarchy under "PLA"
government to continue.)  And of course rocket bombardments of 
civilians, which continues to this day.
     You reveal your ignorance of the Middle East not only with
erroneous statements of what party and individuals govern in Israel,
but by seeing the Israeli/Palestinian issue as underlying all the
problems of the Middle East.  It doesn't; it's a side issue and an
excuse for the despotic governments of the area, which is why they
have kept the Palestinians in refugee camps for 60 years. They don't
want to see the problem resolved, certainly not by peaceful 
coexistence between Israel and a Palestinian state.