🚀 go-pugleaf

klaatu wrote:
> 
> a_jabberwock@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <36637634.9D310230@earthlink.net>,
> >   Chris <lightpony@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > a_jabberwock@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <366228CA.5FBCB89B@earthlink.net>,
> > > >   Chris <lightpony@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > That's what you consider a statistic?
> > >
> > > Just a fact - is that not statistically accurate?
> >
> > But not a statistic, You can research the latest projections of the Bureau of
> > the Census on the web, and find the worst countries for overpopulation are not
> > Catholic,
> 
> Possibly because, as a side effect of education - and the explosion of
> rationality, scientism and common sense - people of conscience are deserting
> the Mother Church in literal droves?
> 
> >they are India, most of Asia, and parts of Africa.
> 
> You left out the region with the greatest and most explosive potentials for
> growth, all on the worst agricultural terrain on earth outside of Antarctica,
> to wit, the Middle East?
> 
> > BHut you knew that, you just want to blame the Pope for something, to pump
> > yourself up, don't you, Chris?
> 
> Actually, I find Chris, while a bit flippant, to be a lot more in tune with
> reality and sensibility than yourself.

I do like to flip a phrase - but  I appreciate your sentiment klaatu.
 
> >
> > > > > > And your proof that overpopulation is bad for the world?
> > > > >
> > > > > Er...our current environment?
> > > >
> > > > My current enviroment seems great, so what is your proof?
> > >
> > > Well we're at 6 bil planetary pop. now - projections are for 10 bil in
> > > our lifespan...should we see it.
> >
> > In our lifespan? Is that our two total lifespans added, or what? And we are
> > not 6billion, we are an estimated 5,951,297,626,
> 
> And with the present rates of growth, 6 billion will be achieved before the
> end of the millenium.
> 
> Note that humanity didn't achieve its first billion until the start of this
> century.
> 
> you don't seem to be able to understand the difference between raw numbers,
> and statistical history, nor do you seem to have a concept of the difference
> between linear and geometric growth, nor have you much of a concept or
> "reproductive inertia" or the simple fucking fact that as more people waste
> more energy in competing for less resources we see:
> 
> - increases in conflict
> 
> - decreases in potential remediations of conflict; depletion of non-renewable
> resources
> 
> - degradation of renewable-resource renewal processes with concurrent increase
> in politically-motivated assaults on renewable-resource renewal processes
> 
> "just for starters."

I've tried to plumb for any systems education - none found to date.

> > but the numbers mean nothing
> > without knowing the largest stable population the Earth will support with
> > proper managment. My guess is 50 billion.
> >
> 
> You are either trolling, or you need to be pilloried in the public stocks
> beneath a sign that says "I am a senseless boob who likes to grossly
> misrepresent the planetary ecology's carrying capacity".

It's a number so shocking that I really was taken aback. If I've touched
a raw catholic bone, fine , but is this the underpinning of the faith,
carrying capacity measured in humans per square foot?
 
> > > > > > Thats why India has no overpopulation or misery, no Catholics?
> > > > >
> > > > > No common sense - cow worship is best left to cattlemen...
> > > >
> > > > Yes, thats great. What about Africa and Asia?
> > >
> > > Sure clitorodectomy, fattening women for marriage, male domination,
> > > trading daughters for cows and such...nah..no problem there...
> >
> > But none of it caused by Catholics, Chris. Try to stay on topic.
> 
> The topic hasn't been Catholics for the last three iterations of the thread
> here.
> 
> Try to attune yourself to topic-drift.

This is fairly typical. They introduce side battles, then seek - after
context snippage - to return he discussion to the core. We can cut to
the core, and I prefer to, but blaming me for replying to the comments
made is silly..but alas typical. Then again had I avoided them, still
there would be a slam for that. Must be a lot of Joseph Heller fans out
there.
 
> >
> > > > Who, you? You are a hard core liberal, aren't you Chris?
> > >
> > > Er, sorry..nope...I'm a capitalist stock picking machine.
> >
> > Yes, a hard core Liberal one. Or is it against the code of Liberals to own
> > stock?
> 
> You pretend to be the master of the unsubstantiated allegation as a prelude to
> a diversion into interminable and pointless debate over a strawman attack?
> 
> Jeeze, you _are_ a newbie to the net, aren't you?

Maybe not klaatu - people fight as best they know. I'm not opposed to a
little probing, it's a given that whatever one reveals will be shot back
anyway; in essence the process reveals more about the attacker than the
victim. So who knows, let alone me, am I a *liberal* or just a mass of
contradictions? 

I might even possess molecular instability...for an instant...longer
with concentration...
 
> >
> > > If my diversity of policy endorsements confuses you
> >
> > Your opinions amuse me more than confuse me, Chris.
> >
> > > You may have felt at a loss due to your inability to equate human
> > > ecosystems to animal ones. Don't worry. A basic course in urban ecology,
> > > buffered with some biology and meteorology will get you there. It's all
> > > wave theory and food chain. Once you understand survival, greed( a
> > > component thereof), and random numbers you'll be fine!
> >
> > I'm fine right now, Chris, and so is Colorado. We're living high on the hog.
> 
> Not if I can help it. Um, how ya like the radioactive water supply courtesy of
> that nifty little outfit west of Denver that dumped all of their
> plutonium-refining sludge into surface ponds on your uphill slope?
> 
> Judging from your rhetoric and the shapes of most of the people living out
> there, I'd say that that there ol nuke-juice must be damned near making you
> glow in the dark.

Actually the Ralston Reservoir thing has simmered to a mere bubble. But
Dr. Carl Johnson's findings on down acquifer Gizmonics contaminants was
shockingly prescient science. What I really like is the way they made
the mustard gas laden Rocky Mountain Arsenal into a wildlife refuge.

"Smithers - shoot me that giant Prarie Dog!"

I have an acquaintance who goes fishing down there. I've yet to ask him
whether it is for sport or consumption. I suspect his terminal node
emergence might one day answer that question.

"Sir watch out, that large slug just stole our tackle box."

 
> Oh, BTW, I'll stop saying how bad Denver sucks when the earth opens and
> swallows it up.

Whoa - it beats the least coast by a country mile or so!
 
> > So where does Catholicism fit in to your ecosystem model, and why is its
> > impact on population and development not as bad as non Catholic ones?
> >
> > > > > Actually what is up for grabs is the papal decrees against birth control
> > > > > (how smart is that as we careen to 10 bil pop on the globe?)
> > > >
> > > > Actually, the only 100% sure method of birth control is OK with the Pope, is
> > > > it not?
> >
> > > And most provably unpracticable - eh?
> >
> > It's very practical, just not practiced, especially in less developed
> > countries where people have nothing.
> 
> See? they've already bred chastity out of their populations. Population
> explosion, crash, explosion, crash, explosion, crash <etc etc ad nauseum> here
> we come!

Remember Teddy Roosevelt and the Grand Canyon deer population?
 
> >
> > > > Ah, yes. You like to blame people for the sins of the past, tell me, Chris,
> > > > what is your past?
> > >
> > > I dunno - some good, some bad, and a lot of learning. I keep trying,
> > > keep reading...you?
> >
> > Mostly the same, only I am looking past my own prejudices. You?
> 
> You're barking up the wrong tree and have been for the last few posts.

But like any decent hound he's onto the scent. 

Think he'll climb the tree to get there? Nahh...
 
> >
> > > > > I'm all for prayer in the home or church - just keep it
> > > > > there.
> > > >
> > > > So you are against free speech? You must be a liberal.
> > >
> > > No I'm a centrist on domestic issues, a radical on personal liberties,
> > > and a conglommerist when it comes to group think...
> >
> > But how can you really mean it when you would limit free speech of a
> > religious nature?
> 
> Strawman argument, "where the hell did e say that?"

Nice of you to notice as much. No, this is no newbie..just another
poseur with a talent for linguistic insertions. 


> > You are just like the Church was hundreds of years ago,
> > ready to limit the rights of those you don't agree with, hardly what I would
> > call a "radical on personal liberties".
> >
> > > > > You lot scare me when you organize for more than a picnic - even then
> > > > > the potato salad may be toxic!
> > > >
> > > > Me lot? What are you talking about? I'm not Catholic, Chris.
> > >
> > > Religious right'ers in general - born agains, Morons, Cat-lckers,
> > > Baptists, etc.
> >
> > Being a radical on personal liberties again?
> 
> I dunno. what about religious freaks who think they have the right to kill
> anyone they label a witch "cause thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?"

But remember, it was God's work!

> >
> > > Shiny happy people having fun - their fun only please!
> > >
> > > Didn't mean to imply you were any one of the above or others not listed
> > > - just a general thought about religions at large.
> >
> > Everybody has a religion, even if it is agnostic. What is your religion,
> > Chris?
> 
> Agnostic isn't a religion. Nor is atheism.

Agreed  - my religion may be closer to pigskin oriented. There is so
much ritual, chanting, yelling, eyes rolling back in the head -
say...he's righ...I do have a religion, and it's centered around an
oblate sphere. Silly me, I knew that! Pass the nachos and holy
carbonated beverage.

Flip you for field position.

> You do like to trot out strawman arguments, don't you? Combining strawman
> arguments with presuppositive ad-hominem attacks is generally considered the
> premiere indicator that you've no real arguments in support of your own
> (obviously ill-chosen) position.

Ahh klaatu - you're way past this respondent's bed time - now quit
teasing the inmates and slide the tray under the door, we've got another
dozen cells to check before lights out.
 
> >
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