🚀 go-pugleaf

a_jabberwock@hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> In article <36604a96.0@news.mho.net>,
>   Melissa9Z@Zmho.net (Melissa) wrote:
> > In article <73om1i$gob@enews1.newsguy.com>,
> >    Roger Williams <rogerw@shell1.tiac.net> wrote:
> 
> > That by "doing good for the poor" and at the same time encouraging even more
> > poor through overpopulation, the net effect is negative.
> 
> And let's see your statistics.
> 
> > I don't know about "profiting from" but they aren't doing the world any good
> by
> > encouraging overpopulation.
> 
> And your proof that overpopulation is bad for the world?

The oceans are dying, including decimations of fisheries. Even the world's
largest and most fertile estuary, the Chesapeake Bay, is practically denuded
of significant marine animal populations, suffers from an extremely simplified
and underpopulated ecology, and last year became pestiferous with _pfisteria
piscicida_, despite nearly a decade of catch limits and extremely aggressive
protections and remediative actions. Most oceans aren't so well regulated nor
loved. Add to this the impacts of a burgeoning humanity which already lives
well past Malthus Limit for a non-industrial economy. Add to this the lovely
and novel spectacle of escalating global rain-forest conflagrations. We saw
the massive burn-off of almost all natural vegetation in Indonesia and
Malaysia, which incidentally destroyed almost all natural orangutan habitat,
creating an immense pall over the entire south Pacific, increasing greenhouse
effects over the El Nino spawning grounds, and we got the strongest EL Nino on
record, which itself spawned catastrophic precipitation events in some places,
and in other areas completely exascerbated drought conditions, which caused,
among other things, the rain-forest conflagration in Mexico, which choked half
of Texas for most of last spring, and downwind of _that_, the same effects
spawned the rain-forest conflagration in Florida which dislocated hundreds of
thousands, caused millions of dollards in damage - and this is all because
_one_ overcrowded country (fourth most populous in the world) had a
market-correction that caused the peasants to go out and cut down the rest of
their _small_ country's woods.

_That_ is what overpopulaiton can do, and there is your proof.

Either you don't pay any attention to the news or you're incapable of reading
between the lines.

> 
> > Yes. They're perpetuating a cycle of misery.
> 
> Thats why India has no overpopulation or misery, no Catholics?

Actually, the predominant religion of India also does not approve of birth
control.

> 
> > Oh yeah, right, preaching abstinence works, especially in a patriarchy where
> > it's an insult not to give the husband what he wants. That's why Catholic
> > population has been declining instead of steadily increasing, I suppose. No?
> 
> Actually, it has been increasing at a rate that is lower than India, lower
> than Africa, lower than Asia, so it must be doing some good, right?

Quiet-possibly because, interestingly enough, in Europe at least the countries
which are predominantly catholic have excellent education systems, and as
regards birth-control, many otherwise-loyal catholics break with the Church,
preferring to exercise reason and planning over blind faith. And it must be
noted that in these countries the degree of secularism is fairly high, in
other words it is not the Church which writes the secular laws. In the New
World, this is not so much the case.

> 
> > Did it ever occur to you that just maybe, perhaps, you're acting as an
> > apologist for a theocracy?
> 
> Did it ever occur to you that you are acting as an knee-jerk reactionary for
> an anti-religious liberal agenda?

Bud, I'm liberal as hell (according to the right-wingers; to the liberals I'm
a knee-jerk Republican) - but the fact of the matter is that it's nearly
impossible to discern between a bona-fide religious experience and a
full-blown psychosis with hallucinatory episodes and persistent delusional
ideation, poverty and coloring of thought, with occasional manic and
megalomaniacal episodes. (to use the langauge of the emerging State Religion,
"Infallible Scientism", as expressed by the emerging State Priest class,
"psychiatrists".)

Melissa here might or might not be knee-jerking, but _I_ try to not knee-jerk.
but much of classical religion is all about maintenance of power and
caste-structures. One of hte best ways to keep your class in power is to make
sure that the suppressed/governed classes cannot get ahead, the classic way to
do that is to keep the barefoot, pregnant, and deluded.

"Freedom can never be absolute until the last king has been strangled with the
guts of the last priest."

> 
> The fact is that the Catholic countries are no worse and probably better at
> caring for their poor and limiting population growth than non-catholic
> countries. The other fact is that you are so fanatically anti-Judaeo-Christian
> that you will never look at any religious issue without bias. Keep hating
> Christians all you want, the only person you are hurting is yourself.
> 

Real Christian, so rare though they be, return love for hatred. "Do good to
those that despise you, thereby shall you heap coals of fire upon their
conscience." Unfortunately, all too many of the Xtians I've encountered care
more for their Church Organization than they care for the words of the Jesus.

I have to take some issue here with your statement "The other fact is that you
are so fanatically anti-Judaeo-Christian that you will never look at any
religious issue without bias."... - you are aware aren't you that there are a
large number of people for whom religion and Judaeo-Christianity (or Islam or
even Hinduism) aren't even remotely related?


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