🚀 go-pugleaf

  On Wed, 8 May 1996, John Cooley wrote:

> -=Weezel=-  <louise@mv.mv.com> wrote:
> >Aieeeeeeee! John, hello from planet earth. Sometimes people lose weight 
> >because it will make THEM feel better. As in, healthier. As in, more able 
> >to do the things they want to do. Or because it's easier to find nicer 
> >clothes in the smaller sizes. Or because they're curious to see how 
> >they'll look. Or because... of a lot of reasons that do not have to do 
> >with attracting exterior-seeking members of the desired sex. Yes, some 
> >people lose weight to present an image. But Gail said she did not, and 
> >you are saying you don't believe her? Funny, she's never struck me as 
> >dishonest.
> 
> Weezel, I've never met a woman (other than one with an odd medical condition)
> who wanted to be fatter than she was.  Have you?  Also, have you noticed
> how our society treats overweight women?  (I'm not talking about just how
> guys are or are not attracted to them; but how they're treated by lots
> of other men and women in general?  It's not nice many times and a lot of
> opportunities aren't available for fat people in general compared to being
> slinder, etc.)

John, I'm fairly qualified to answer these questions. In 1988 I lost 50 
lbs. I did this while in a long-term relationship with someone who NEVER 
complained that I was unattractively fat. I was not looking for guys. I 
wanted to feel better. At the same time I got into bodybuilding and was 
into that for several years, culminating with preparing for a contest (I 
didn't enter it as two weeks before the contest I was in a 4-car crash 
and could not move my right arm/shoulder to do the posing routine). By 
that point I'd gone from a size 16 to a size 4-6 (except across the upper 
back and shoulders - thank goodness for shoulder pads in clothing, as I 
can REMOVE them and have the clothes fit). And I'm 5'4" tall. That isn't 
my size or physical condition right now - I'm up to an 8-10. The small 
size was with bodyfat at 11 1/2 %, which is starting to get dangerously 
low for a woman.

So I know how society treats women who are fat and women who are slim. I 
also know how it treats women who are strong, no matter if they're 
feminine or not. I never did any drugs for this purpose, so didn't get 
"mannish", but any thought of muscles on a woman is enough to upset some 
people, men and women. The most out of shape people would go "ewww, those 
ugly muscles" when I flexed. And I was not mean enough to point at them 
and go "ew, that ugly flab" because I'd BEEN there, and two wrongs don't 
make anything better.

When I started losing weight I was a software engineer and had been for 8
years. I changed to writing after losing weight. My salary and
opportunities have been more affected by choosing to do what I'm very good
at and love, more than my weight. Simply being female affected my
opportunities more than my weight, also. 

> Also, if you go back to my original post you'll see I wasn't talking about
> getting sex partners -- but respect.  Why do you seem to take everything I
> say as sexual, Weezel?
> 
>   - John

Yes, indeed you did talk about respect. You were responding to a message 
where someone said, in response to your prior posting, that she didn't 
lose weight to gain attention from men. You did change "attention" to 
"respect" but had previously been talking about both.

Talking about "members of the desired sex" is not necessarily talking
about sexual matters. I use that phrase to make things more general when
talking about attracting *whoever-it-is-you-want-to-attract*, thus
including both same- and opposite-sex relationships. Thus I mean the whole
package I see as dating or being attractive to others. To me this isn't
just sexual. 

However, it's also a bit odd for you to complain about me taking what you
say as sexual. This particular string started when posted a note about
"friends of yours" who wrote women off if they didn't bed them within 3-7
dates, which has gotten abbreviated to 3.  And your postings have talked
about men being glad they had $ so they could attract (and bed) attractive
women... and so on. 

On another tack, it would be clearer if you more directly state your
position when you are talking about friends' opinions that you disagree
with. It would help me understand what you're talking about. As it is, you
have a perfect fallback to "oh, this isn't ME, this is my FRIENDS" when
people respond to your postings. 

--L