🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <316@g.cs.cmu.edu.ARPA> mjs@g.cs.cmu.edu.ARPA (Mark Stehlik) writes:
>This is posted for a friend who apparently can only read netnews, not post.
>All responses should either be posted here or sent to me (I will forward
>the mail).
>
>My 1984 Toyota Celica has 16,000 miles on it.  During last winter, I noticed
>that the car started to hesistate during sudden and quick acceleration.  This
>only happens when the car is cold.  The problem goes away after the car
>warms up.

I currently own an '83 Celica GTS that has had similar problems (among
others).
A little history: 
	Last winter it started having staring problems but ran fine
	when warmed up.  As time went on, the performance began to
	deteriorate and starting got worse.  After trying tune-ups and
	such, I took it to the dealer.  They replaced the cold-start
	injector and "thermo-timer switch" (?) at a cost of $175.00
	(ugh).  The starting problem was cured but performance con-
	tinued to deteriorate, warm or cold.  I took it back to the
	dealer and was told that I needed four new injectors for a
	cost of approx. $600.00!  BULLS**T!!!!!  After talking to friend
	about local mechanics, I took it to a small independant import
	shop for a second opinion.  I called later to find out the
	prognosis and was told that it was fixed.  I had these terrible
	visions of hundreds of dollars of unauthorized work.  Instead,
	the mechanic told me that all he had to do was replece the
	Autolite plugs with original equipment NGK.  IT WAS FIXED!  Well
	almost.  The car runs fine now when warm and starts first time,
	every time but still hesitates when partially warmed up.  When
	really cold it also runs fine.  My mechanic's (the only person
	who will touch the car from now on) opinion is that it is pro-
	bably the choke plate (I think) in the fuel injection and that
	I can ignore it if I don't mind sitting and letting the car
	fully warm up.  Otherwise he said that repairs would cost some-
	where near $150.00.  There was a second possibility that he
	mentioned but I can't remember it.  Anyway, the problem descri-
	bed in the original posting may be the same.  You can be sure
	that it will be expensive if a dealer does it.

	Now for some stones to through at Toyota.  Below is a history
	of my car's problems.

	       Day 1 - Power steering system blows main internal seal.
	  6000 miles - A/C compressor locks up and self-destructs.
	11,000 miles - Both front seat belts no longer retract.  Toyota
		       replaces one but never gets another.  I end up
		       replacing it myself after 6 more months.
	12,000 miles - After months of telling them that the original
		       tires are screwed up, they finally put it up on
		       a rack and see that, yup, all four are out of
		       round.  They give me a replacement allowance and
		       I get a set of BF Goodrich Radial Euro T/A 60H
		       (great tires) to replace the original Yokahamas.
	27,000 miles - After long uneventful spell, the problems men-
		       tioned above begin.  Also during this time, the
		       battery just goes away one day.

	This is probably not a really bad car compared to some but it
	does not live up to the record of Toyotas in general and my
	previous Celica ('79 GT) in particular.  I wonder if Japanese
	reliability is suffering now that their cars are getting more
	complex.  Oh well, it still drives beautifully most of the time
	although I am thinking of replacement (it is nearly paid for
	and I cannot live without new car payments).

<>

>... 	                                         I wonder if Japanese
> 	reliability is suffering now that their cars are getting more
> 	complex.  Oh well, it still drives beautifully most of the time
> 	although I am thinking of replacement (it is nearly paid for
> 	and I cannot live without new car payments).

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that a lot of 'Japanese' cars are
now made in the good old US of A?

[Lets hope they still keep making some in Japan that will meet US
EPA regs, &c, or we will be back to square one :-( ]

-- 
Opinions expressed are public domain, and do not belong to Lotus
Development Corp.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Simcha-Yitzchak Lerner

              {genrad|ihnp4|ima}!wjh12!talcott!sesame!slerner
                      {cbosgd|harvard}!talcott!sesame!slerner
                       talcott!sesame!slerner@harvard.ARPA 

> In article <316@g.cs.cmu.edu.ARPA> mjs@g.cs.cmu.edu.ARPA (Mark Stehlik) writes:
> >My 1984 Toyota Celica has 16,000 miles on it.  During last winter, I noticed
> >that the car started to hesistate during sudden and quick acceleration.  This
> >only happens when the car is cold.  The problem goes away after the car
> >warms up.
> 
> I currently own an '83 Celica GTS that has had similar problems (among
> others).

> 	The car runs fine now when warm and starts first time,
> 	every time but still hesitates when partially warmed up.  When
> 	really cold it also runs fine.

Since my electronic mail response to the original posting didn't get through
here's my two-cents worth.

I also have a 1984 Celica GT with ~36,000 miles that had similar problems
with the car hesitating.  I complained to the Portland regional office, first
they told me it was bad gas, then they sent a letter telling me what I was
experiencing was absolutely normal.  The problem it turned out after about
9 visits and 6 months to various mechanics was an oxygen sensor.  The first
one that they had heard of going on the fritz.

The problem was found after 3 days of extensive parts swapping with another
Celica that was in the shop for other repairs.  They only charged me $72
for finding the problem and Toyota paid ~$180 for the rest of it.

I also have had other problems with my car since I bought it.
  1.  Floor mat fell apart (replaced free).
  2.  Speaker had a rattling noise (replaced free).
  3.  Water pump went out (I paid ~$80).
  4.  Rocker arms had unusual wear (replaced free).

Even though I hope never to see them again, the people that worked at the
Toyota shops were the most conscientious and helpful mechanics I've ever
met.  Hopefully they're the same in your area.

Good luck getting the bugs out of your cars.
-- 

				Craig Hondo
				CAE Systems Division, Tektronix, Inc.

uucp:    {ucbvax,decvax,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!tektronix!teklds!craigh
CSnet:   craigh@tek
ARPAnet: craigh.tek@csnet-relay

(I'm re-posting this, since it didn't seem to make it the first time...)

> 
> >... 	                                         I wonder if Japanese
> > 	reliability is suffering now that their cars are getting more
> > 	complex.  Oh well, it still drives beautifully most of the time
> > 	although I am thinking of replacement (it is nearly paid for
> > 	and I cannot live without new car payments).
> 
> Perhaps it has to do with the fact that a lot of 'Japanese' cars are
> now made in the good old US of A?
> 
> [Lets hope they still keep making some in Japan that will meet US
> EPA regs, &c, or we will be back to square one :-( ]
> 

	To my knowlege, the only car being sold by a Japanese company in this
country which is also assembled here is the Honda Accord.  From my experience,
and according to Consumer's Report, there is no noticeable difference in
quality between the Japanese and American-built Accords.  It is, of course,
only *assembled* here, with all of the mechanics still being made in Japan,
though I've heard that they've had such good luck with their American plant
that they're planning to start building the engines here as well.
	Nissan has a U.S. plant for assembling trucks, and Toyota has the
California plant that they operate in a joint venture with GM, but the latter
has all of its production sold under the Chevy 'Nova' name for now.  Mazda and 
Mitsubishi have plans for U.S. plants in the works, the latter in cooperation
with Chrysler, but none have been built yet.  All are planned only as assembly
plants, with the mechanics coming from Japan, but enough parts and labor from
the U.S. to make them just more than 50% American made, thereby avoiding any
future trade barriers (hopefully).
	As regards the topic of the original posting, I had been wondering
about the same thing.  I seems that the Toyota owners I know don't rave about
them as much as they used to.  My suspicions were further aroused when checking
the Consumer's Report buyers guide indicated a slow but steady decline in
Toyota's frequency of repair record (referring to the Corolla in particular).
	Anyone else notice this, or have any further comment on the topic in
general?

Re frequency of repair statistics: frequency of repair statistics
represent relative frequencies, and user expectations are
also relative.  The difference between Japanese cars and US cars was so
great 10 years ago, it made the Japanese cars look outstanding.
While the quality of US cars has not reached the Japanese level,
they have improved, so Japanese cars don't seem as good
relative to American cars.

The only figures that could prove anything would be information
on maintenance and repair costs in $/mile.  I don't know
where those could be found.

> The only figures that could prove anything would be information
> on maintenance and repair costs in $/mile.  I don't know
> where those could be found.

Road and Track magazine publishes operating costs in $/mile for all their
long-term test vehicles.  Unfortunately, you can't really trust any study
with a sample size of 1.



Phil Kos
The Johns Hopkins Hospital
Baltimore, MD					"Strawberry tart?!"
						"Well, it's got *some*
...!gamma!cp1	    \				  rat in it . . ."
...!decvax!decuac    \					- MPFC
...!unc!brl-bmd	     /\
...!allegra!umcp-cs /  \ !aplvax!osiris!phil