🚀 go-pugleaf

.....
> 5) carbon deposits on the head and the top of the piston GLOW and ignite the
> new charge too soon.  This is a good reason to clean surfaces during a valve
> job.  If you have a carb, you can battle this with an "internal steam clean"!
> 
> INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN:  get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container.
> Take the air cleaner cover off and get a good grip on the throttle.  The car
> must be hot.  Rev the car up to 3 grand or so, and pour water down the barrel
> of the carb, fast enough to slow the engine down, but not fast enough to stall
> it out.  Use the throttle freely to keep it going.  If the car stalls and
> floods, open the throttle and wait a few.  Sounds wild, but I have cured
> (temporarily, at least) a few pingers this way.
> 
......

Has anyone else tried this???  I have never heard of doing this before
and would like more than one opinion before drownding any engine I work
on.

				Rick Schieve
				...ihnp4!ihu1g!rls

In article <738@ihu1g.UUCP>, rls@ihu1g.UUCP (r.l. schieve) writes:
>.....
>> 5) carbon deposits on the head and the top of the piston GLOW and ignite the
>> new charge too soon.  This is a good reason to clean surfaces during a valve
>> job.  If you have a carb, you can battle this with an "internal steam clean"!
>> INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN:  get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container.
>> Take the air cleaner cover off and get a good grip on the throttle.  The car
>> must be hot.  Rev the car up to 3 grand or so, and pour water down the barrel
>> of the carb, fast enough to slow the engine down, but not fast enough to stall
>> it out.  Use the throttle freely to keep it going.  If the car stalls and
>> floods, open the throttle and wait a few.  Sounds wild, but I have cured
>> (temporarily, at least) a few pingers this way.
>>
>......
>Has anyone else tried this???  I have never heard of doing this before
>and would like more than one opinion before drownding any engine I work
>on.
>				Rick Schieve

I'm curious--was distilled or ordinary tap water used?  The latter would leave
possibly abrasive mineral deposits behind as it flashed into steam.  And even
then it sounds risky--the cool water hitting hot engine parts (thermal and
mechanical shock--and what if a chunk of sparkplug insulator broke off and
started to bounce around in the cylinder?).  And if it were to kill the engine
(with puddles of water in the cylinders) the water might leak off into the
crankcase oil as the engine sat.  If carbon was knocked loose this way, and
the car had a catalytic converter, I surmise it could get clogged this way.

Yes, I was dumb enough to try this once myself; there was no apparent harm
but it didn't seem to help anything either.

I wonder if the original poster looked inside the cylinders after the "steam"
treatment to see if the carbon was actually reduced or removed?  Actually,
I wonder, is there a good way to do this without taking the head off?  Maybe
a "pinhead" bulb could be lowered into the sparkplug hole and the piston tops
viewed directly that way (piston tops seem to gather a good deal of carbon)
but I have never tried it.
-- 
 -------------------------------    Disclaimer:  The views contained herein are
|       dan levy | yvel nad      |  my own and are not at all those of my em-
|         an engihacker @        |  ployer or the administrator of any computer
| at&t computer systems division |  upon which I may hack.
|        skokie, illinois        |
 --------------------------------   Path: ..!ihnp4!ttrdc!levy

> > INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN:  get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container.

> Has anyone else tried this???  I have never heard of doing this before

I have not tried it, but it was recommended to me by an automotive
engineer from AMC when my 79 AMC Spirit (6 cyl) started a very loud
banging noise.  We're talking loud bangs, not pings, and they started
suddenly one morning when I started the car.  The bangs were so loud
I stopped the engine and let the car sit (3 days) while I decided
what to do next.

Someone suggested that before I tried the water as recommended by AMC,
I try a product called Casite which burns the deposits off.  It worked
well, and made tons of thick brown smoke come from my tailpipe. When
the smoke stopped, the problem was gone.  CAUTION:  lots of smoke--
alert neighbors before using and definitely do not use in garage, even
with tailpipe sticking out of garage door.

>> INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN: get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container.
>> Take the air cleaner cover off and get a good grip on the throttle.  The car
>> must be hot.  Rev the car up to 3 grand or so, and pour water down the barrel
>> of the carb, fast enough to slow the engine down, but not enough to stall
>> it out.  Use the throttle freely to keep it going.  If the car stalls and
>> floods, open the throttle and wait a few.  Sounds wild, but I have cured
>> (temporarily, at least) a few pingers this way.

>Has anyone else tried this???  I have never heard of doing this before

I would be extremely careful about pouring liquids down carburetor throats.
Any liquid (not yet vaporized) that gets into the cylinder will raise the
pressure above normal during the compression stroke (because liquid is not
compressible).  If enough water or whatever gets in, there will be hydrostatic
lock.  At 3000 r.p.m. that's certain to break the connecting rod.

It is fairly common practice to prepare an engine for storage by pouring
oil through the carburetor while the engine is running.  Oil is far more 
viscous than water and hence can't flow into the combustion chamber at a 
great rate.  But even this procedure must be undertaken carefully.  I would 
think the potential for an accident with water is greater.

B.T.W. I can't really figure out why the steam would dislodge the carbon
buildup: chemically the carbon is very inert.  What is the mechanism?
Mechanical shock?

jan prins   prins@gvax.cs.cornell.edu  (ARPA)
            prins@cornell.csnet
            {vax135, ihnp4, decvax}!cornell!prins

In article <306@inuxm.UUCP>, skipt@inuxm.UUCP (M Tourville) writes:
> > > INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN:  get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container.
> 
> > Has anyone else tried this???  I have never heard of doing this before
> 
> ... 
> Someone suggested that before I tried the water as recommended by AMC,
> I try a product called Casite which burns the deposits off.  It worked
> well, and made tons of thick brown smoke come from my tailpipe. When
> the smoke stopped, the problem was gone.  CAUTION:  lots of smoke--
> alert neighbors before using and definitely do not use in garage, even
> with tailpipe sticking out of garage door.
  
The next logical question is, Has anybody else had any experiences (good
bad, or indifferent) with Casite?

> Discussion of steam cleaning the INSIDE of you're engine....
> Has anyone else tried this???  I have never heard of doing this before
> and would like more than one opinion before drownding any engine I work
> on.

I have used this OLD trick for years. I usually just use a garden hose and set it
with about a 1/4" trickle. Then set the engine on fast idle and hold the hose over
the carb. It has usually helped with pinging problems and never done any damage.
There is also commercial upper cylinder cleaners available. One I used to use alot
was called "carbon out" I think. I'm also pretty sure GM sells one. GOOD LUCK

>>> INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN:  get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable 
>>>container. Take the air cleaner cover off and get a good grip on the 
>>>throttle.  The car must be hot.  Rev the car up to 3 grand or so, and 
>>>pour water down the barrel of the carb...

I have always heard to use automatic transmission fluid, and get your
car out to the countryside where the landscape will take a LOT of smoke.
I have never heard anyone explain why ATF is used, but I have heard
others swear that it works.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Kirby    ( ...!ihnp4!akgub!cylixd!dave)

> In article <306@inuxm.UUCP>, skipt@inuxm.UUCP (M Tourville) writes:
> > > > INTERNAL STEAM CLEAN:  get a pint or a quart of water in a pourable container.
> > 
> > ... 
> > Someone suggested that before I tried the water as recommended by AMC,
> > I try a product called Casite which burns the deposits off.  It worked
> > well, and made tons of thick brown smoke come from my tailpipe. 
>   
> The next logical question is, Has anybody else had any experiences (good
> bad, or indifferent) with Casite?

I can't speak for Casite or water, but as I recall from buggier days the
immortal "Complete Guide to VW Maintenance for the Total Idiot" (or so)
recommended pouring a pint of kerosene down the carb barrel.  Similar 
process: keep the flow slow and the revs high and ignore the choking 
fumes.

Like the previous correspondant I wonder: did anyone actually try this?

Dan Scherlis

care of: damora%h-sc1@harvard.ARPA

> I can't speak for Casite or water, but as I recall from buggier days the
> immortal "Complete Guide to VW Maintenance for the Total Idiot" (or so)
> recommended pouring a pint of kerosene down the carb barrel.  Similar 
> process: keep the flow slow and the revs high and ignore the choking 
> fumes.
> 
> Like the previous correspondant I wonder: did anyone actually try this?
> 
> Dan Scherlis
> 
> care of: damora%h-sc1@harvard.ARPA



First of all, the "Idiot's Guide" specifies diesel fuel and

yes, I did try it.  My Karmann Ghia was due for a rebuild anyway,

so I did exactly what everyone has been saying - about a pint

of diesel down the carb real slow.  Boy, I never saw so much

smoke, but the engine did seem to run better.  By the way,

I changed the plugs at the same time (after the process of course)

and the old ones were really fouled - I would recommend at least

cleaning the plugs after you try this.  Also, if your tailpipe

is near your carb (i.e. - rear engine car) goggles and bandanna

are a good idea.


Andy     ihnp4!ihlpm!ahl


P.S. - I also heard of a guy that blew up the motor in his Camaro
       by doing this, but I suspect that it was his incompetence
       and not the process