🚀 go-pugleaf

> Now that cold weather is back again my 78 Accord has started having
> a problem under the following conditions: cold, wet weather and the
> car has been sitting for a long time (overnight). Usually the car 
> starts fine and shows no problems but within a mile or so the car is
> running really rough and I have to keep some pressure on the gas to keep
> it running if I have to stop. When this problem happens all that I have
> to do to make the problem disappear is to pull over , turn the engine off
> (or let it stall) and wait for a few minutes. After a few minutes I start
> the car and the problem has gone away and so far has never reappeared
> until the next time it has been sitting for a very long time.

At about 125,000 miles my 1980 Civic started doing the same thing.
I think it is carburetor ice.  It only happens during prime conditions
for carb ice (32-60 degrees F. and damp) when the carb is already cold.
Sitting over a warm engine seems to warm the carb enough to prevent the
ice from forming.  I have found, also, that running the engine at low
revs and high throttle (lugging it) during the first few minutes of
the day reduces this tendency.  This would agree with the carb ice
theory.  Why the ice?  I don't know.  I suspect that some preheat
or similar system is failing.  The other posibility I thought of is
that some cold temp sensor is sticking and needs replacing.  (But I
like the carb ice theory better).  This problem has not been bad
enough for me to get real motivated to fix it.  (Once every few months
or so...)  Cleaning the carb with spray carb cleaner seems to help
for a while.

-- 
E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

This is the obligatory disclaimer of everything.

> Now that cold weather is back again my 78 Accord has started having
> a problem under the following conditions: cold, wet weather and the
> car has been sitting for a long time (overnight).
> -- 
> 					marc gates
> 					umcp-cs!aplvax!marc

Sounds alot like my 73 Buick Century. The problem was moisture
getting into the electrical system. Solution? Spray wires and
distributer cap with silicon. This may not solve your problems but
it's my best guess at the moment.

so long,
Dave

In article <182@aplvax.UUCP> marc@aplvax.UUCP (Marcus H. Gates) writes:
>Now that cold weather is back again my 78 Accord has started having
>a problem under the following conditions: cold, wet weather and the
>car has been sitting for a long time (overnight). Usually the car 
>starts fine and shows no problems but within a mile or so the car is
>running really rough and I have to keep some pressure on the gas to keep
>it running if I have to stop. When this problem happens all that I have
>to do to make the problem disappear is to pull over , turn the engine off
>(or let it stall) and wait for a few minutes. After a few minutes I start
>the car and the problem has gone away and so far has never reappeared
>until the next time it has been sitting for a very long time.
>    Any ideas???? 	Why does the problem completely
>disappear with a few minutes rest and then stay gone for the rest of
>the day even if the car sits out from 8:30 to 5 while I'm at work??
>Any help or suggestions for diagnosing the problem would be greatly
>appreciated.
>-- 
>					marc gates
>					umcp-cs!aplvax!marc

Marc, it sounds like the car is warming up faster than the choke is
adjusted for.  That is why when your engine is saying, "OK choke, I'm
getting warm now.  Start backing off".  The choke is not moving and
therefore your car starts to run rough or too rich.  ie. black smoke
and heavy running.  So you shut it off and the remaining engine heat
is still working its way to the choke.  After a couple of minutes the
choke is warm and releases and your car runs fine.
  The good news is it is a cheap fix and any decent mechanic can clean
and adjust your choke with the description you gave.  Make sure he
cleans it because it could be just sticking and needs NO adjustment.

Bill Landsborough


----

"Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not 
arrogant or rude... Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all
things, endures all things."   1 Corinthians 13:4-7

>     Any ideas???? ...

	Your car reminds me of myself in the morning: just
kind of stall out when going to work, and go like crazy when
leaving work. Now if your car starts and runs fine on weekends
and days off, that will definitely prove your car doesn't like
going to work :-)

                1
              1   1
	    1   2   1			Doug Williams
	  1   3   3   1			AT&T Bell Labs
	1   4   6   4   1 		Reading, PA
      1   5   10  10   5   1		mhuxl!daw1
    1   6  15   20   15  6   1

> 
> Sounds alot like my 73 Buick Century. The problem was moisture
> getting into the electrical system. Solution? Spray wires and
> distributer cap with silicon. This may not solve your problems but
> it's my best guess at the moment.
> 
	Why spray sand (silicon) all over the motor? We need it to
make ICs here in Reading :-) Of course some people think we make
silicone chips anyhow!
	
	Happy holidays.

                1
              1   1
	    1   2   1			Doug Williams
	  1   3   3   1			AT&T Bell Labs
	1   4   6   4   1 		Reading, PA
      1   5   10  10   5   1		mhuxl!daw1
    1   6  15   20   15  6   1

> Now that cold weather is back again my 78 Accord has started having
> a problem under the following conditions: cold, wet weather and the
> car has been sitting for a long time (overnight).
> 					marc gates

If the car sits out all night, I might suspect that the carburetor
is icing up.  As you drive, there is much cold, damp air being pulled
in.  As it goes through the carb throat, it hits a vacuum and can ice
up.  (This is a big problem for aircraft flying through clouds at
near freezing temps.  They have engine de-icers.)

As you sit for a minute, the engine heat gets to the carb. and defrosts
it.  So the car starts and runs fine for the rest of the trip.  During
the day, the sun on the hood might just keep things warm enough (just a
guess).

When the thing stalls, I would immediately open the hood, take off the
aircleaner, and see if there is a film of ice inside the carb.  If so,
you've found the problem.  I am not sure how to fix it.  If it just
started, it could be that someone left off the heat riser tube the last
time they worked on the engine.  Or the tube could be broken.  This is
usually a 2" metalized hose from the exhaust manifold to the air
cleaner.  The idea is that it pulls air past the manifold (which gets
hot rather quickly).  Thus, a few minutes after you get under way, the
carb. is getting warmer air, and the icing doesn't happen.

There are other things here though.  One is a flap in the aircleaner
which shuts off outside air till the engine warms up.  Another is a
restrictor which forces exhaust gas to go through the intake manifold
before going to the muffler (again to warm things up).  Finally,
there are often thermal vacuum switches which control the above mess;
one of these could be sticking in the "I'm all warmed up now" position.

	Steve Falco