🚀 go-pugleaf

>> 	Has anyone had any experience with the Knowledgeman (tm) or 
>> Knowledgeman/2 database product by MDBS (Micro Data Base Systems) ? It
>> is currently implemented on the IBM-PC under MS/PC DOS and under BSD 4.2
>> on the VAX. 
>> 
>> Brian Danylkiw

In article <564@whuts.UUCP> 6243tes@whuts.UUCP (STERKEL) writes:
>I have been using the K-Man 1.4 version for several years with great 
>success.  K-Man/II is a much enhanced version with full menu for 
>those users who really do not know what a data base is and do not
>care, but "just gimme the answers".  

I have K-Man 1.07 on a PC/AT.  We have also been trying both K-Man 1.07
and now K-Man 2 under 4.2 BSD UNIX.  These 4.2 versions have been Beta-test
versions, so they probably have some problems that won't appear in the
final delivered products.  Now for some observations.

First, I agree that K-Man is a powerful relational DMBS.  It is also
a fairly large package.  You really don't want to use it if all you
have is a floppy disk based system -- that's where Dbase and friends
can probably claim a better niche.  K-Man is designed for bigger problems.

The big thing we have noticed with our UNIX versions is that they don't
do screen management very well for people using ASCII terminals.  We
have a lot of terminals that are still running at 2400 bps (due to the
large number of terminals and the limitations in our front-end switch).
Watching K-Man repaint the screen over and over on a 2400 bps terminal
is really painful.  You probably wouldn't care as much at 9600 bps.

BUT WAIT!  Help is on they way!  That's why they have Beta test sites.
In version 1.07, they used their own screen manipulation package.  They
did not use termcap ... they had their own configuration files.  That
was a real problem for us with nearly 1000 terminals with dozens of 
different brands.  We told them so.

K-Man 2 has changed to termcap, but they still aren't very intelligent
about repainting areas of the screen that haven't changed.  You don't
notice this when you have it on a PC because you can paint the PC's
screen so quickly.  Anyway, I am told they are working on a new version
that will use something like curses, so that should help a bunch.

While we are on the subject of K-Man 2 and its menus, I would have to
say that using the menus is REALLY SLOW on an ASCII terminal.  You
just have too many levels and choices.  For example, it takes two or
three different menu selections just to get the thing to generate the
BYE command so you can exit.  I haven't seen K-Man 2 on a PC, but I'm 
sure it must be faster.  Personally, I'm not so sure I would even use it
there because of all the multiple levels and choices you have to make
to do even the most simple things.

Back to 6243tes@whuts.UUCP (STERKEL):
>The second problem was a manual that made the brash assumption that
>the user was a professional that already understood the fundamentals
>of data base operations.  The new K-Man/II has corrected this.

Well, sorry to disappoint you.  They say they have a new manual, and
indeed they do.  Sorry to say the only thing new about it is its form, not
its content.  It is now typeset and fits into one of those nice boxes that
fit on your shelf.  It still lacks anything that looks like a tutorial ...
yet it is organized like a cross between a tutorial and a reference
manual.  But unlike a real reference manual, they put it in order by what
you are doing (e.g.  Defining and Using a Table, Table Sorting and
Indexing, Data Retrieval and Statistics) and then within each chapter the
order of commands is the order in which you might choose to use them (?).
I thought most technical writers learned many years ago that reference
manuals should be ordered alphabetically (by command).  To make it worse,
each command description is in order by novice, intermediate, and advanced
topics, so when you go try to use it as a reference manual, you aren't 
sure whether you are looking up a novice or advanced topic so you have
to search 3 sections of text.  The manual is still just plain abysmal!

>K-MAN was the first relational DBMS to *include* (not after-market)
>text processing, spreadsheet (mediocre, maybe better now), real
>graphics, color/graphics, mouse control, forms, input/output forms,
>interactive forms control, a true Wirth-style language, C language
>interface.

Yes, they do have these packages ... for the PC environment.  But
do notice that each of them comes as a separate add-on that you
must purchase.  Even at discounted prices, you can easily end up
spending close to $1,000 for the whole package.  And the spreadsheet is
still one of the worst examples of how do to a spreadsheet that I
have ever seen.  Don't buy it for that "feature" (which is part of
the base package).

I'm afraid this winds up sounding negative.  It probably just shows
my frustration in dealing with a very nice DBMS that comes so close 
to being just what you want and then has silly little things like a
dumb screen interface on UNIX and a poorly organized manual stand
in the way of excellence.
-- 
Tom Putnam, Manager of User Services
Purdue University Computing Center

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