🚀 go-pugleaf

1. go to the 11/73 (bugs still in the 11/53)
2. if the backplane is not VERY old, string the extra four lines is very
	simple.
3. dump the dlv11-j's since  A. they only do single character i/o
			     B. they are only good at 1200 baud sustained
			     C. they improperly pass bus signals
			     D. generally are disgusting (direct quote from
				a DEC hardware developer)
4. add more memory and a dhv11 (or third party equivalent)

	the above are objective expansions...the 5th suggestions is from a
personal point of view:

5. upgrade to RSX-11M-Plus to take advantage of all the new hardware (i/d space
and supervisor mode.....as well as a MUCH much better terminal driver...)

-ed cetron
Center for Engineering Design
3168 MEB, Univ. of Utah

[sacrificial line....]

 I sent the original article as well as my response on to a friend within
digital, his comments are indented in []
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
From: Mike Ciaraldi  <ciaraldi>
 
 
I asked about this a year ago and got some good ideas, so
here goes again...
 
I know someone with the following system:
 
.....
From what I've heard, we should be able to go to more
memory with our 11/23 (not an 11/23 Plus).  The original
(1981) DEC manual says it's limited to 256K, but the
current one says it can go to 4 Meg.
However, we would have to either replace or modify the 
backplane to allow 22-bit addresses to be sent to the boards.
Also, our present memory board would not work, as it
only looks at 18-bit addresses.
The disk controller will work OK with 22 bit addresses.
 
	[ Pitch the whole mess and start over. The backplane upgrade
	  may or may not be easy, the 23 (possibly with some etch
	  changes) may support 22 bit addresses, some of the older
	  18 bit options used BDAL<21:18> as test signals, the 18
	  bit memories won't work and the resulting configuration
	  isn't maintainable. Besides, an 11/53 would be cheaper
	  than the upgrade work. ]
 

....  I don't see where TSX is told how much memory
you have.  Does it figure it out automatically?  Do we
have to redo the   RT-11 Sysgen for the extra memory?
Is that hard? (never did one for RT-1 before).
 
	[ RT-11 doesn't really take advantage of more memory, except
	  for limited memory management control in the XM monitor. I
	  don't know all that much about it, but I believe that RT
	  restricts code to running in the first 28K of memory and
	  allows data manipulation in the rest. TSX may take care of
	  this in their timeshare mechanism, but I'd look carefully
	  at it first. ]
 
 
Finally, how many users could we realistically expect to
run on an 11/73?  They would mostly be running accounting
software, no eiting or compiling.  As I said, the
11/23 with 256K poops out at 3, mainly due to 
lack of memory to run the jobs.

	{ 11/53 should run 7 - 10,  11/73 should cover 8 - 14  ejc}
 
I appreciate any ansswers, commets, or suggstions.
Incidentally, theey may also bite the bullet and buy
a Microvax II instead of upgradingthe present system.
 
	[ Best idea I've heard yet. ]

 
	{ and now comments on MY previously composed response - ecj}
 
1. go to the 11/73 (bugs still in the 11/53)
 
	[ The 11/53 is just FINE, thank you ]
 
2. if the backplane is not VERY old, string the extra four lines is very
	simple.
... 
 
5. upgrade to RSX-11M-Plus to take advantage of all the new hardware (i/d space
and supervisor mode.....as well as a MUCH much better terminal driver...)
 
	[ If they're going to convert an interactive accounting application,
	  may as well go to VMS. ]
 
	{ I then received a query , from someone at Digital re: the 11/53 bugs
		so I asked my same contact about the 11/53....}
 
	I recall several problems with the 11/53 that was to go on the display
floor....I can't recall exactly, but I remember lots of bitching about it....it
seem to recall that the standard configuration for the 11/53 barely has enough
memory to do anything constructive (much less also run the 3 billion different
demo programs required in the exhibit hall....) 
 
	I will check with my Dec contacts and try to clarify and get you more
information....
-ed
 
 
  
	[ Personally, I love the 11/53. However, that particular 11/53
	  had two problems:
 
	  1) Nobody brought the add on memory for the WPS+ demo or normal
	     operation, and:
 
	  2) Nobody brought the TK50 drive I was promised, and the easiest
	     way to install the demos is from this TK50 I have with a
	     bootable BRUSYS and the system image. This meant copying 30+
	     floppies on the show floor.
 
		 ...... The only
	  complaint I have with the 53 is that it slows down when accessing
	  off board memory, although it's still pretty quick. As for design
	  reliability, we never breadboarded the 53 CPU, we went straight to
	  etch, and the rev 1 etch produced workable processors. I think it
	  was etched only two or three times before ship (as opposed to the
	  mucho many for other modules) and I think it's one of the cleanest
	  most reliable designs we've ever done.
 
	  Some of the other complaints you may have heard from me were over
	  a minor difference in the clock CSR which plays havoc with system
	  software until you know about it. The KW11-L ready bit is read
	  only.
 
			

-----------------------------

	{ sorry for the long confusing article, but I wanted to get more
information out as well as correct the references to the 11/53.... ejc }


-ed cetron 
 

Hello,
	Do you know of any PD vi editors that will run under VMS... vi would
be ideal for its full-screen capabilities, an optimal performance over slow
lines, and ALSO its use of the standard qwerty KEYBOARD... please send me a
reply if you know of something like this, or if you know of something else
that might fit the bill...  Thanks,

I have been looking for a "vi"-like editor to use under VMS, but something
else that would work almost as well, would be an edt initialization file 
that emulates vi... Surely somebody must have done this, and would be willing
to post it...  I would do it myself, but we don't have our VMS docs, yet...
I have some of it done... assigning things like hjkl (char left, down, up, 
right) to ctrl-hjkl under edt... the basics would encompass:

		hjkl, udfb, select, cut, paste, find, findnext,
		gold, and keypad enter, and perhaps ctrl-x for del line...

Is anybody inspired?  thanks,

In article <1642@ncoast.UUCP> btb@ncoast.UUCP (Brad Banko) writes:
>Hello,
>	Do you know of any PD vi editors that will run under VMS... vi would
>be ideal for its full-screen capabilities...

>...or anything else that might fit the bill...  Thanks,

   Well, if you want to leave the PD requirement behind (far, far behind),
try using EUNICE, VMS' unix emulator.  One of our VMS machines here runs
EUNICE, and I use vi through it whenever I need to edit on the cluster
(and that even though I'm supposed to be teaching people how to use EDT).
--

 - Joel ({allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster)