🚀 go-pugleaf

> 
>      Well, Tramiel has done it again.  It was just announced that
> the 520ST will sell without a monitor in toy stores for less than
> $300.  The computer specialty stores are *furious*, many "I told
> you so"'s are floating around.  It's just what he did with the
> C64 when he was at Commodore.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if
> the computer stores dump the ST en masse, even with Tramiel's
> promised 1040ST for them only (we know how much THAT promise is
> worth).
> 
>      I'm glad I didn't waste my money on an ST the way I did on
> the 8 bit series (400,800,1200XL).  I saw what once were serious
> graphics engines (that happened to play neat games too) become
> toys only, and it's happening all over again.
> 
> 			Bye Bye Atari Pie
> 
What is the difference where the 520ST is sold?  Just as long as the price is
cheaper.  Why should anyone want to supplement a 'computer store?' where
half the time, the saleperson is just as ignorant about the machine as a
typical K-Mart salesperson.  What is the advantage of paying 300.00 more just
because it is sold in a computer store?  
And the machine doesn't magically turn into a toy just because it happens to be
sold from K-Mart.  If it is a good machine then it is a good machine, period.
It is strange attitudes that hurt machines, not marketing.  The public has been
duped long enough with outrageously over-priced machines such as the likes of
all Apple products.

ray (mass marketing is OK if you don't mind being out-programmed by a 10 year 
old kid who was able to afford to get one for his birthday.)

> > 
> >      Well, Tramiel has done it again.  It was just announced that
> > the 520ST will sell without a monitor in toy stores for less than
> > $300.  The computer specialty stores are *furious*, many "I told
> > you so"'s are floating around.  It's just what he did with the
> > C64 when he was at Commodore.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if
> > the computer stores dump the ST en masse, even with Tramiel's
> > promised 1040ST for them only (we know how much THAT promise is
> > worth).
> > 
> What is the difference where the 520ST is sold?  Just as long as the price is
> cheaper.  Why should anyone want to supplement a 'computer store?' where
> half the time, the saleperson is just as ignorant about the machine as a

Hear, Hear. I would think that the people on the net who do not need the hand-
holding and advice of someone who knows less than them, Computer store salesman,
would welcome the opportunity to get the best deal possible. Are you guys 
against a good deal?! Since Atari makes the development kit available, then the
money you save can be spent on it. Making it cheap *AND* easy to use.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           Erik James Freed
			   Aurora Systems
			   San Francisco, CA
			   {dual,ptsfa}!aum!freed

[]
>What is the difference where the 520ST is sold?  Just as long as the price is
>cheaper.  Why should anyone want to supplement a 'computer store?' where
>half the time, the saleperson is just as ignorant about the machine as a
>typical K-Mart salesperson.  What is the advantage of paying 300.00 more just
>because it is sold in a computer store?  

Wow! For once, something that I agree totally with Ray about!
Give me a machine with this kind of horsepower and you can
sell it in Crackerjack boxes if you want - I'll still buy it.

Isaac Dimitrovsky
allegra!cmcl2!csd2!dimitrov   (l in cmcl2 is letter l not number 1)
251 Mercer Street, New York NY 10012     (212) 674-8652

You know the great thing about tv? If something important happens anywhere at
all in the world, no matter what time of the day or night, you can always
change the channel - Jim Ignatowski

> 
>      Well, Tramiel has done it again.  It was just announced that
> the 520ST will sell without a monitor in toy stores for less than
> $300...
  
  Hooray!  I bought a C64 at Toys'r'Us a couple of years ago, and now I
  will probably by an ST520 there.  Soon there will we millions of ST's
  in use with reams of software at reasonable prices.  No more supporting
  some flaky, overagressive, undereducated speciality salesperson.

  Thanks, Jack Tramiel, you HAVE done it again!

  Bye, bye Amiga (with a tinge of regret).
-- 
	Mike Eve     Boeing Aerospace, Seattle
	...uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!eve

> 
>      Well, Tramiel has done it again.  It was just announced that
> the 520ST will sell without a monitor in toy stores for less than
> $300.  The computer specialty stores are *furious*, many "I told
> you so"'s are floating around.
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if
> the computer stores dump the ST en masse, even with Tramiel's
> promised 1040ST for them only (we know how much THAT promise is
> worth).
> 

As a former retail person representing the old Atari and Commodore
line when they first came out, I have to respond to this.

When a computer come out for what appears to be a rediculously low price,
Specialty Computer Stores are skeptical, cautious, and greedy.  The profit
margin (in dollars per unit) is much lower for a computer selling for
say $1000 than for a comparable (or even inferior) machine selling for
$2000.  The pressure on the sales people comes from two directions.

The Store wants to make a better "per unit profit" to pay expenses, therefore
salesmen are encouraged to sell more expensive machines and discourage
people from buying the less expensive ones.

Competitors, also discouraging sales of "cheap" computers, will tell some
whopping lies if necessary to prevent the customer from going to another
store where they sell "game machines" and buying a "toy computer".  In fact,
when Atari was selling computers to schools at 3 for the price of 2, one
school board dismissed the Atari as a game machine and removed the merchant
from the bidding list.

If Atari had come out with a VAX 11/780 running full UNIX 4.3 for $300,
the IBM-PC merchants would have called it a "game machine" or a "toy
computer".  How do the ST dhrystone tests compare with a 11/750?

Stores like K-Mart are more concerned with Volume sales.  They would rather
sell lot's of $300 computers than just a few $2000 boxes.  The salesmen
in some stores are even more qualified than those at the Specialty shops,
but even if they're not, there is less pressure to get "commission" from
a $3000 package.

I have actually seen two local stores go bankrupt snubbing the ST.  The
industry moans and gripes about the "Slump" in computer sales, yet when
a computer that could potentially turn the "Slump" into another "Boom"
comes around, the retailers and pundits treat it like a "toy".  There
have been several computers in the under $1000 market, several of them
were "PC Clones" that were "Less than 100% compatible".  Now Commodore
and Atari have created machines that are an order of magnitude more
powerful than "The Original", and they have been declared "Home Computers",
"Game Machines", and "Kid's Toys", but "Not for Serious Business Use".

The Amiga is getting the "Prestige Treatement" because it has a price
tag that people normally associates with "Real Computers".  Of course,
Commodore proved that "Good Press" and high volume are not mutually
exclusive.

The Important thing for Retailers and the industry as a whole to consider
is this:

	For every ST sold, there is one IBM-PC (or clone) that wasn't.

Even though the "PC-Cloners" don't consider the ST a direct competitor,
as more people discover that an ST can do the same "Big 5" business
applications as well or better than "IBM's Finest", the customer is
going to start asking for a "Home Computer" rather than a "Business
Machine".

Anybody remember when "Business Computers Run CP/M" was the means of
discouraging people from buying Atari's and Commodore's.

At $800, Atari has already sold 100,000 ST's in less than 6 months and
the software has only now started coming.  At $300-$400, Atari may sell
100,000 units per MONTH.  Even if the computer stores snub atari completely,
this is a terrific candidate for software that is sold in record shops,
typewriter stores, or even K-Mart. "Yes K-mart shoppers for the next 10
minutes our blue light special will be System V UNIX for the 520ST for
only $19.95! Come and see our other fine software".

On the flip side.

K-Mart has been very reluctant in the past to sell any software other
than that labled by the computer manufacturer.  Getting K-Mart to sell
your software is a little more difficult than getting it into your
local "Computer Shack".  If K-Mart does sell your product, you can
expect a minimum of 10,000 copies just to get started.