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In article <139@uwmacc.UUCP>, pwu@uwmacc.UUCP (Peter Wu) writes:
> ---
> What's the difference between the 800 and 800 XL other than the
> built-in basic? About half of the games I have that worked on
> the 800 doesn't work on the 800 XL at all. Is there any way to
> fix this?
> 
> peter

Different OS's which if the game producers had of used legal entry points would
not have made any difference.  However, a lot of the early games used areas of
the OS that they should not have.  The 800XL still conforms to what Atari calls
out in their documenation.  The solution happens to be simple, tho.  Most Atari
dealers or user's groups have what is known as translator disks.  You use the
translator disk to boot up initially rather than your game disk.  Then it
prompts you when to load the game.  It in effect changes the OS from the XL to
the OS of the older 800.  If this explanation does not make sense, you probably
will have many others trying to answer your question also.  Atari Corp. C/S
also used to have the translator disk available, but I don't know if they still
do or not.  There are two sides to it: translator A and translator B.  I have
always used only the TA side, do not know really what the TB side is for.
I think that TB was for the 1200XL OS.  Now that I think about it, there are
some games that will run on my 800XLE or 130XE, but require the translator for
the 1200XLE.   Normally dedicate the 130XE for word processing and
telecommunications and keep the 800XLE free for games.  As a result, I seldom
use the 1200XLE and virtually never for games.  (800XLE/1200XLE are
800XL/1200XL with 256k memory expansions--Newell Industries version).

		 --Bill--

 Try using the ATARI translater or the FIX xl from ANTIC.
-- 
Marc L. Appelbaum
Arpa: appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU
Uucp: ...{allegra, harvard, seismo, sri-iu, ut-sally}!topaz!appelbau

In article <139@uwmacc.UUCP> pwu@uwmacc.UUCP (Peter Wu) writes:
>---
>What's the difference between the 800 and 800 XL other than the
>built-in basic? About half of the games I have that worked on
>the 800 doesn't work on the 800 XL at all. Is there any way to
>fix this?
>
>peter

There are several things that could cause the games not to work.  (It would help
if I knew which ones they are - There are a few programs which will not work on
an XL, period.  But most can be corrected).

     When Atari brought out the 1200XL (this is useful history, I hope), they 
created a new operating system, which includes the self-test (which did not
exist on the 400/800 - there was a 'memo pad' instead), and software to detect
the Help key, and other new 'Function Keys' (which do not exist on 800XLs, but
still show up in the self-test.  If you look at the keyboard test, there are 
several keys which do not exist).  They moved some routines around, which meant
that some software written for the 800s (and which was written WRONG - the
routines really should not have been used because they were subject to change)
does not work.  People started to notice this, and felt the need to correct the
problem.  Atari made a "Translator" disk which makes an XL think that it is an
800, and ANTIC and ANALOG magazines have both created Translators which they
claim work better than Atari's version, and various companies have offered
Translators which are probably superior to the magazine versions.  I would 
suggest that you look at users groups/public domain libraries to find one.  
Atari has allowed their version to be distributed in the public domain, and
software from the magazines is usually fairly easy to get.  Whatever you do,
don't pay more than $5 (if someone is selling it).  These Translators are 
generally quite effective, and any software that doesn't work with them probably
will not work on an XL at all.

     Now, I gather that a pretty fair proportion of the programs will not work
with the 800XL.  If it's more than 1 in 10, then I think that the problem is
probably that you are not disabling BASIC.  As you have mentioned, the 800XL
has Basic built-in (this is a truly advanced and amazing feature :-) ).  To run
many programs, one must disable Basic (ESPECIALLY if it is a game requiring
48K).  One does this by holding down the OPTION key as one turns on the
computer.  Timing is not critical - just push OPTION before you turn it on, and
let go when the computer seems to be doing something useful - like loading the
program.  Holding it too long won't hurt.  Not enough - start over.  (If you 
know this already, I apologize for hand-holding.)  This is a simple problem to
deal with, once you know about it.  Unfortunately, as far as Atari's
documentation is concerned, it's rather obscure.  Obscurity is not new to them.
I do not use any of their documentation for this reason.  I go elsewhere.

I hope that some of this is useful, and even (gasp!) informative.

                                       Christopher Browne
                                       University of Waterloo

There are several differences betwixt the 800 and 800XL.  Notably:

1.  A new version of the OS ROM.  Many bugs were fixed and routines
shuffled about.  Programs that didn't adhere to the published entry
vectors and CIO calls, were bitten badly.

2.  Two fewer game ports.  Ports 3 and 4 were disposed of.  From what
I've seen of the memory maps, it also looks like the RAM locations used
by those ports were usurped for memory management facilities.

3.  More RAM.

The problem you're experiencing with "old games not working" isn't unusual.
Many programmers took short cuts and called various OS routines directly.
When the routines were shuffled about as part of the new OS, the short cuts
broke.  There is a remedy, though.  There is a "translator disk" that you can
boot that will load the old OS into some of the available RAM.  Many of the
broken programs will then work.

As for obtaining a copy of the translator, well, I don't have a good answer.
There are a few floating around, some in the public domain (see Antic
magazine's insert of public domain diskettes), some from user groups, or
some from Atari (I think you can still get 'em there).  Check around is all
I can suggest.

					Dave

I can't sing and I can't dance ... guess I'll have to program for a living.

> > What's the difference between the 800 and 800 XL other than the
> > built-in basic? About half of the games I have that worked on
> > the 800 doesn't work on the 800 XL at all. Is there any way to
> > fix this?
> 
> ... The solution happens to be simple, tho.  Most Atari
> dealers or user's groups have what is known as translator disks.  You use the
> translator disk to boot up initially rather than your game disk.  Then it
> prompts you when to load the game.  It in effect changes the OS from the XL to
> the OS of the older 800.

I have a couple of translator disks, which I suppose work for improperly
written software distributed on disks.   But the improperly written
software I have is on cartridges.  How can you run that on an 800xl?

		David Smith
		{backbone!}hplabs!dsmith