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Thread View: net.rec.skydive
4 messages
4 total messages Started by kas Thu, 15 Aug 1985 01:14
Re: Re: First Time Jumper!!!
#188
Author: kas
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1985 01:14
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     Here's some responses to some responses...


> Im glad to see some interest in sky diving on the net. Im kind of new to the 
>sport and I'd like to hear some comments about other DZ's. My "home" zone is
>the San Diego Air Sports Center. The weather is great so we almost never have
>any problem getting altitude.(12,500) This place is kind of small but it is 
>about the only DZ within reasonable distance from San Diego.                
> I saw a posting from Corvallis (I believe). Where is your DZ? Do you have
>much trouble with the weather? I can just see it ""Well, we got altitude now
>where's the f___ing DZ."" 
> How about some comments on gear. My main is a Maverick (Glide Path) and I
>use a Northern Lite container. The cannopy is great but the container is 
>only so-so. I would to hear comments [and or] recomendations on other types.

     Gee, I didn't realize anyone outside of Corvallis had heard of Corvallis!
Anyway, we don't have a DZ in Corvallis, so I do most of my jumping at a DZ in
Sheridan, OR.  It's about a 45 minute drive due North.  It's not big -- we 
have one twin Beech and a couple of C-180's.  Getting enough people together
for a Beech load is a major accomplishment.  And yes, we do experience weather
problems occasionally, but not as often as you might expect.  Sheridan is 
located in a valley on the east side of the Coast Range, and even though
the coast is often cloudy, the clouds break up and dissipate over the Coast
Range, leaving Sheridan sunny a surprising amount of the time.  The summer
months generally provide excellent jumping weather -- temperatures between 75F
and 85F, with occasional gusts into the 90's.  Humidity is typically between
20-40%.  All this adds up to really nice, soft landings most of the time.
Winter months are usually still jumpable, but you gotta watch for mudholes, 
and it's COLD at altitude.  Fortunately, all the planes have jump doors, 
including the Beech.
     The only time I got "stuck" at altitude was when I jumped at a different
DZ south of here.  There were nine of us (an 8-way plus a cameraman) planning
to do a formation load from two Cessna's (a 206 and a 182).  The clouds had
been very threatening all day, but in mid-afternoon a huge hole opened up.
We piled into the planes and headed for altitude, but by the time we got to 
five grand the hole was beginning to shrink.  When we got to 12,500', the
airport was gone.  We circled for a while waiting to see what would happen,
but then the pilots decided to dump us at another airport about three miles
away, which had a barely jumpable hole over it.  Just as we turned onto jump-
run, I noticed a hole opening up over the proper DZ, so I suggested we make
another pass at it.  No go.  Too much gas had been burned already, so out we
went.  The jump was a disaster.  The spotter put us out over the edge of the
hole, so we punched through several chunks of cloud as we skimmed by.  The 
star only built to about 5 or 6, because the last couple of us out of the 
trailing plane could see the star only about half the time.  And I'll be damned
if I'm going to dive through a cloud at 180+ mph toward a star I can't see!
     Concerning gear, I'm not sure what kind of comments you're looking for,
so I'll describe mine.  I recently bought a complete rig, consisting of a
Vector harness/container with two Raven III canopies.  The Ravens are TSO'd
for either Main or Reserve use, so I figured it would be novel to have the
same kind of canopy, no matter which I rode down with.  The Raven has the 
highest glide ratio of any canopy I know of, so if the rider is within the
recommended weight range, it tends to be a little "floaty".  Something to 
consider if CRW is on the agenda, especially with older canopies that have
a higher sink rate.  All told, I like the rig just fine, but the main had a
built-in left turn, so I sent it back to the manufacturer for (free) repair.
The Vector comes in two styles -- "standard" and "narrow".  I had to get the
"standard" width because the Raven III reserve won't fit in a "narrow", even
though the Raven III main does.  The container is slightly wider than I am,
something a certified "skygod" would shudder at, but I guess I don't know
enough to know the difference.  Ok, enough of this.  On to the next response.

==== ==== ====
Response 6    to Note 2   
	brl-sem!jeffh                          12:13 pm  Aug  6, 1985  


>Can anyone on this { doomed? } newsgroup tell me where to find a
>good school for a first jump?  I am in the Baltimore-Philadelphia
>corridor.  I have wanted to try this for a long time, but have only
>recently felt as if I might be able to absorb the financial drain.
>Are there listings of this sort of information?  Where should one
>look for that sort of information?

     Let your fingers do the walking.  Many DZ's advertise in the Yellow 
Pages under such headings as "Skydiving", "Parachute Jump Instruction", "Sport
Parachuting", and "Schools-General Interest".  If (when) you make that first
jump, let us know!!
     Some personal opinions:  Skydiving does not have a reputation for being
an inexpensive sport, so as long as you're committed to spend some money,
spend as much as necessary to do it right!  Don't just look for the "cheapest"
drop zone (DZ), if you have more than one to choose from.  While not absolutely
necessary, nor legally required, I think the following will add to your safety
and enjoyment, if you can find a school that offers any or all:

     AFF -- Accelerated Free Fall program.  All jumps are free fall, no static
            lines as in the "conventional" training method.  The first several
            jumps are made with two instructors who physically hang on to you
            to keep you out of mischief.  But you get to "fly" yourself, and
            you'll learn much faster.

     Squares -- "Square" canopies instead of "Round" ones.  Many DZ's are using
            big, docile "Squares" on their students because they are a hellava
            lot more fun to fly, and safer too, 'cause they land feather-soft.

     AAD -- Automatic Activation Device.  An electro-mechanical device that 
            will activate your reserve in the extremely unlikely event that 
            both your main canopy and your brain take a vacation.

             *
            / \
       |---/---\---|            Ken Scofield    C-9355
       |   Gone    |            Hewlett-Packard PCD
       |  Jumpin'  |            Corvallis, OR
       |-----------|
			{ucbvax!hplabs, harpo, ogcvax}!hp-pcd!kas
Re: Re: Re: First Time Jumper!!!
#193
Author: Documentation
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1985 17:53
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> 
>      AAD -- Automatic Activation Device.  An electro-mechanical device that 
>             will activate your reserve in the extremely unlikely event that 
>             both your main canopy and your brain take a vacation.

I know this is not fun to talk about, but would any of you frequent
jumpers care to relate your experiences of chute failure? Such as
how long it took to figure out your main was a streamer, etc.?
I realize this doesn't happen often, but would like to hear from
people who've had to deal with it. 

I haven't jumped since my first time in 82, owing to limitations on
time and money, but I plan to get back into it.
Re: Re: Re: First Time Jumper!!!
#200
Author: kas
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1985 21:46
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> I know this is not fun to talk about, but would any of you frequent
> jumpers care to relate your experiences of chute failure? Such as
> how long it took to figure out your main was a streamer, etc.?
> I realize this doesn't happen often, but would like to hear from
> people who've had to deal with it. 

> I haven't jumped since my first time in 82, owing to limitations on
> time and money, but I plan to get back into it.


     I'm not a frequent jumper myself, as I've only made 360 jumps since I
started in '72.  In that number of jumps I've had two occasions to ride a 
reserve, and both of them were with old military surplus gear which was in
common use when I started jumping.
     My first 'function occured when I had about a dozen jumps.  I had just
purchased my first set of gear (military surplus, of course).  My 28' 7-TU
opened into a Mae West which was slowly spinning.  I was taught that with
a "mild" malfunction it was better to hand-deploy the reserve before cutting
away the main, so that's what I did.  (By the way, that is an OK procedure
for military surplus gear, but generally NOT for more contemporary gear,
especially with square canopies).  Almost as soon as the reserve opened,
which of course reduced the hanging load on the main, the line-over which
had caused the Mae West slipped off, allowing the main to open fully.  This
all happened before I could cut away the main, obviously.  Since both 'chutes
were now open side-by-side, neither one could be steered, so the only solution
was to get rid of one of them.  Interesting dilemma.  The main was larger and
would thus give a softer landing, but the reserve cannot be cut away.  Cutting
away the main would commit me to a hard landing under a 24' reserve.  So, I
grabbed handfulls of reserve lines and began pulling down one side.  Eventually
I "spilled" all the air out of it and it collapsed.  I wadded it up between my
knees and proceded to fly the main normally for the remainder of the descent.
     My second 'function was a "total".  Same gear as before.  Back in those
days the container flaps were held closed with "pins" and "cones" -- rarely
seen anymore except on old gear.  If dirt or sand got into the holes of the
cones, the force required to pull the ripcord could become quite large.  When
I had about 25 jumps or so, I experienced this problem and could not pull the
main ripcord, even with both hands.  I eventually quit trying (none too soon)
and dumped my reserve at about 900 feet.  I don't recommend waiting that long!
     Over the years I've made well over 200 jumps on Paracommanders (PC's),
and never had a single malfunction.  In recent years I've been jumping squares,
and also have not had any problems.  The only hair-raising incident I've ex-
perienced is a mid-air canopy collision (see note titled "USPA Boogie Tales").
     As far as recognizing a malfunction, it shouldn't take more than a FEW
seconds.  It takes about three seconds for a canopy to open, from the time
you pull the ripcord (or whatever).  Sometimes a canopy will "snivel" for two
or three seconds before deciding to open, but then still takes a couple more
seconds to completely open.  A total of maybe five or six seconds.  NEVER wait
any more than three or four seconds, if it's snivelling.  If it ain't making
any noticable progress by then, it probably isn't going to.  Thus, if you
aren't sitting under a good canopy within six seconds, it's reserve time.  I'm
sure you were taught to begin counting at the moment of exit or pull.  This is
why.  You'll probably never get to six, but if you do, don't go any higher!  

             *
            / \
       |---/---\---|            Ken Scofield    C-9355
       |   Gone    |            Hewlett-Packard PCD
       |  Jumpin'  |            Corvallis, OR
       |-----------|
			{ucbvax!hplabs, harpo, ogcvax}!hp-pcd!kas
Re: Long Snivels
#206
Author: Paul Fries
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1985 19:40
28 lines
2016 bytes
I just want to put extra emphasis on Ken Scofield's remarks about the
time to wait before going to reserve.  Ken's comment said six seconds
was the limit.  This sounds just right to me, and a little math will
prove it.

Consider the distance travelled during the snivel.  First, to convert
mph to fps, use a factor of 1.46, i.e. 100 mph == 146 fps.

If your freefall rate is 100 MPH (low side) you travel 146 fps.
If your freefall rate is 120 MPH (high side) you travel 176 fps.

The six second snivel (for discussion, the actual malfunction is
a bag lock, so the drag does not significantly reduce your speed)
uses between 876 and 1056 feet of your available altitude.  If your
pull was at 2500 ft AGL, you are well into the "pucker" zone (at
least I pucker if I don't have SOMETHING working by 1700 feet) by this
time.  (Note: USPA recommends 1800 feet as the decision altitude,
1500 as the execute altitude for a cutaway).

The only think I would like to add to this is that we do not have to
simply wait during the six seconds.  We can be watching what is going
on over our heads!  Without taking a lot of time, a shake on the riser
may be just what is needed to get it open.  At least you can be sure 
that you are not chopping a good main.

	BLUE SKIES!
	Paul Fries
	C-17147
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