🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1177@decwrl.DEC.COM> alpert@nanook.DEC (ingsoc goodthink doubleplusgood @MHO/DTN 2632172) writes:
>[]
>
>>	I'm always amused by people who try to show how income tax is
>>unconstitutional. 5th amendment protection against self-incrimination?
>>16th amendment not valid?
>
>I personally do not find the thought that the American people have
>been shafted for the last 70+ years amusing at all.  By the way,

	That's not the amusing part. And neither is the idea that the tax
system needs reform - I agree. What I find amusing is these people who 
refuse to pay on some grounds that income taxation is unconstitutional.
The point is: they may be 1000% right, but the gov't AIN'T GONNA ADMIT IT.
If they did in the one case, they would have to in all cases and give
everyone their money back. The amusing part is that anybody thinks that's
going to happen.

>the 5th Amendment says nothing about "self-incrimination." Why
>is it that I get the feeling most people have not set their eyes
>on the Constitution since falling asleep in some Social Studies
>class long ago... 

	Well, not having a copy of the constitution handy, I would greatly
appreciate it if you would post the text to the 5th amendment (sounds like
you have it memorized, or at least re-read it regularly). You're right - I
haven't set eyes on it since Social Studies class a long time ago. I wasn't
aware that it was a rapidly changing field where we had to keep up with
the latest textual changes. I may be mistaken, but I thought it said that 
a person could not be compelled to testify against himself. Please post
the text and your explanation of what it means.


>
>>Do you really think they would say, "Okay, he's right, the government has to
>>give everybody back the money they've paid since 1944, with interest. And
>>not only that, but the government can't tax anybody's income anymore."
>
>No. However, one dares to hope that a system of taxation that does not
>involve theft, extortion, threat, and intimidation might someday become
>a reality. 

	But simply refusing to pay is hardly going to effect that change.
When you say "tax rebel", most people think "Posse Comitatus". And when
you say "Posse Comitatus", most people think "Single digit IQ neo-Nazis".
Seems to me you have a bit of PR work to do if anybody is going to take
you seriously. And if anybody *is* going to take you seriously, you're
going to have to play down the single-digit IQ of the guy who owed $40
and died for it. I would hardly call that guy a champion of the tax reform
cause, and I doubt you will find much public sympathy for him.

>
>The Constitution and Declaration of Independence should be required
>reading for all -- it's very interesting to contrast what the role
>of the Federal Government and its powers were intended to be with what
>it has become.

	I agree - and I believe our school system does as well. As a matter
of fact, it *is* required reading for all American citizens who go through
the school system. However, reading and comprehension are two different
things. Every once in a while someone will take the Bill of Rights, remove
the recognizable title, and pass the 10 points around as a petition. The
number of people who refuse to sign it because it is "commanist propyganda"
is truly astounding.

>To a certain extent, we are talking about political idealogy as much
>as anything else.  If one believes in the principles of freedom and
>liberty that this country was founded on, the current Federal government,
>taxation system, and monetary system are abominations.

	Just out of curiosity, how do you propose that the government
finance its operation? Seriously - I'm not baiting you, I would truly
like for my thoughts to be provoked. I agree with you that there are
aspects that are horrendous, but I haven't heard any reasonable 
alternatives yet.

>
>		"Fight Organized Crime -- Abolish the IRS"
>				-seen on a bumper sticker

	...and replace it with what?

>
>		Bob Alpert


-- 
					--MKR

"I've heard you say many times that you're better than no one,
 And no one is better than you.
 If you really believe that you know you have nothing to win
 And nothing to lose."   - B. Dylan