🚀 go-pugleaf

I imagine Taxachusetts is sticking you with a property tax, not a sales tax.
Much like real estate taxes, the idea is "them that has, can afford to pay".
You don't have much chance of avoiding it...

-- 
 The Hyundai is faster than speeding molasses!

 Phil Ngai +1 408 749 5720
 UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil
 ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.dec.com

In article <493@faron.UUCP> ao@faron.UUCP (Alan R. Ouellette) writes:
>     If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
>pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?  And
>if they do, can I say that they refused payment and be able to get 
>my registration anyway?

From what I've read somewhere, any amount of pennies more than 50 is
not legal tender.  Furthermore, I've heard, from a student at the school
at the time, that Princeton University applied this when one of their
seemingly random $50 fees sparked an abortive penny protest, but I do
not have the details.

ucbvax!brahms!weemba	Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720

> >     If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
> >pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?  And

> From what I've read somewhere, any amount of pennies more than 50 is
> not legal tender.  Furthermore, I've heard, from a student at the school

	OK, so use nickels :-)

                1
              1   1
	    1   2   1			Doug Williams
	  1   3   3   1			AT&T Bell Labs
	1   4   6   4   1 		Reading, PA
      1   5   10  10   5   1		mhuxl!daw1
    1   6  15   20   15  6   1

In article <493@faron.UUCP> ao@faron.UUCP (Alan R. Ouellette) writes:
>..., I bought a new car
>from a Massachusetts car dealer (I got a good deal).  At the time,
>... I registered the car in Vermont, which involved paying
>sales tax to the state of Vermont.  I have since moved to 
>Massachusetts and I need to register my car in Massachusetts.  I
>went to the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles to get plates,
>figuring it would cost about $50 to transfer the registration.  I
>was wrong!  Massachusetts will not register my car until I pay them
>5% sales tax on the car, plus penalties and interest.
>...  So, the bottom line is that in order to register my
>car in Massachusetts, I have to pay the sales tax again.

Same thing happened to me.  While I was living in DC I bought a car
in Maryland.  Then I moved to MD and had to pay sales tax again.  Then
I moved to California and had to pay yet again (fortunately, only on
the reduced value of the car, which was 3.5 years old by then).

No, there's nothing you can do about it.
-- 
- Joe Buck <ihnp4!pesnta!epimass!jbuck>
This sentence is false.

>      If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
> pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?

Yes, they can refuse.  "Non-silver" coins (pennies and nickels) are
not legal tender in quantities exceeding 25 cents.  Seems kinda silly
now that no coins are really made out of silver, and currency is no
longer redeemable for silver.
-- 
Doug Pardee -- CalComp -- {hardy,savax,seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!terak!doug

In article <> weemba@brahms.UUCP (Matthew P. Wiener) writes:
>In article <493@faron.UUCP> ao@faron.UUCP (Alan R. Ouellette) writes:
>>     If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
>>pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?  And
>>if they do, can I say that they refused payment and be able to get 
>>my registration anyway?
>
>From what I've read somewhere, any amount of pennies more than 50 is
>not legal tender.  Furthermore, I've heard, from a student at the school
>at the time, that Princeton University applied this when one of their
>seemingly random $50 fees sparked an abortive penny protest, but I do
>not have the details.
>
>ucbvax!brahms!weemba	Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720

Are gold coins considered legal tender? I suppose you could protest by dumping
gold coins on the taxman and flatter his ego at the same time, as he would
scramble to get them sold before the price dropped, or hold out say ten years
so the price would go sky high.

Andrew Jonathan Fine

One thing you might do is simply not register your car in the
new state.  Massachusetts is notorious for taxing the hell out of
anything; for example, if you live in New Hampshire (which has no
income tax and seems to get along just fine) but work in Mass. then
you must pay Mass. income tax just as if you lived there.

If you maintain a legal residence in your old state (e.g. at a friend's
house or a relative's house) then I believe this is legal.

Besides, when you are stopped for speeding they'll never be able to collect
on the out-of-state tickets...
-- 
John Gilmore  {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu   jgilmore@lll-crg.arpa
	"You've been in the pipeline, filling in time"

In article <10133@amdcad.UUCP> phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) writes:
>I imagine Taxachusetts is sticking you with a property tax, not a sales tax.
Actually, it IS a sales tax.  Our Common"wealth" assumes that any attempt
to import a car into the state within x amount of time (12, 18, or 24 months,
I'm not sure) is an attempt to buy out of state and defraud the state.  So it
charges you sales tax nonetheless, regardless of the reason.



-- 
*** Speak for the company?  Naaaah, it's hard enough speaking for ME! ***

 ... "What were you expecting, rock'n'roll?"                                  

Roger B.A. Klorese
Celerity Computing, 40 Speen St., Framingham, MA 01701, (617) 872-1772        
UUCP: seismo!harvard!bu-cs!celtics!roger, ucbvax!sdcsvax!celerity!celtics!roger
ARPA: bu-cs!celtics!roger@harvard.ARPA, celerity!celtics!roger@sdcsvax.ARPA

<Surf's Up!>

>     I am currently mired in a situation involving the Massachusetts
>Registry of Motor Vehicles.  In September, 1985, I bought a new car
>from a Massachusetts car dealer (I got a good deal).  At the time,
>I was a Vermont resident (22 years) and I was still living in 
[...]
>     If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
>pennies? 
>
>     Please respond to me directly and I will let you know how this
>all turns out.

Thank you for all the replies.  First, let me correct a mistake in the
original posting.  It should have read 62618 rather than 626018 (Oops!,
who typed that extra zero??!?).

Well, my tax problem with MA has been resolved.  I am now a New Hampshire
resident, where they have never heard of sales tax. I got a much nicer
apartment too (Why do they call them apartments anyway?  They're all stuck
together.  Maybe they should be called attachments).  Bye Bye Massachusetts.

				
			    Al Ouellette

linus!ao   or linus!faron!ao

"Ain't life peculiar"

In article <169@epimass.UUCP> jbuck@epimass.UUCP (Joe Buck) writes:
>In article <493@faron.UUCP> ao@faron.UUCP (Alan R. Ouellette) writes:
>>..., I bought a new car
>>from a Massachusetts car dealer (I got a good deal).  At the time,
>>... I registered the car in Vermont, which involved paying
>>sales tax to the state of Vermont.  I have since moved to 
>>Massachusetts and I need to register my car in Massachusetts.  I
>>went to the Massachusetts Registry of Motor Vehicles to get plates,
>>figuring it would cost about $50 to transfer the registration.  I
>>was wrong!  Massachusetts will not register my car until I pay them
>>5% sales tax on the car, plus penalties and interest.
>>...  So, the bottom line is that in order to register my
>>car in Massachusetts, I have to pay the sales tax again.
>
>Same thing happened to me.  While I was living in DC I bought a car
>in Maryland.  Then I moved to MD and had to pay sales tax again.  Then
>I moved to California and had to pay yet again (fortunately, only on
>the reduced value of the car, which was 3.5 years old by then).
>
>No, there's nothing you can do about it.
>-- 
>- Joe Buck <ihnp4!pesnta!epimass!jbuck>
>This sentence is false.


This just doesn't sit right with me.  Does this mean that I'm going to have to
pay sales tax to every state I move to on my new car?  What about in 5 or
6 years if I still own it?  Lets say I'm a floater and move often.  I could
conceivably pay more in sales tax than the cost of the car!  Something is
definitely wrong.  What about my other possessions?  If they are new too,
am I legally obliged to pay a sales tax on those items too whenever I move?
Argh!  The laws of the land have certainly become convoluted, not to mention
unfair...

-eli
-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eli Liang  ---
        University of Maryland Computer Vision Lab, (301) 454-4526
        ARPA: eli@cvl, eli@lemuria, eli@asgard, eli@mit-mc, eli@mit-prep
        CSNET: eli@cvl  UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!cvl!eli

> Are gold coins considered legal tender? I suppose you could protest by dumping
> gold coins on the taxman and flatter his ego at the same time, as he would
> scramble to get them sold before the price dropped, or hold out say ten years
> so the price would go sky high.
> 
> Andrew Jonathan Fine

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
   The problem with this idea is that gold coins usually have a face
value much less than their gold value. Canada issues gold coins with 1/2
ounce of gold with a face value of $100 Canadian (ie US $70). I think
the taxman would be pleased to get as many of these as possible for $70
each.

> >     If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
> >pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?  And

If you have a free checking account (and you don't pay for checks)
you could send them lots and lots of checks (which they have to process).
Also, if banking regulations haven't changed, you can write a check on
most anything provided that name, date, bank name, payee and amount are
there.  I recollect people doing it on watermellons, fish and other
items.  Of course I don't recommend doing any of these things :).
Glenn Tenney

> > >     If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
> > >pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?  And
>
> If you have a free checking account (and you don't pay for checks)
> you could send them lots and lots of checks (which they have to process).
> Also, if banking regulations haven't changed, you can write a check on
> most anything provided that name, date, bank name, payee and amount are
> there.  I recollect people doing it on watermellons, fish and other
> items.  Of course I don't recommend doing any of these things :).
> Glenn Tenney

If I were a bank branch manager, I would be reluctant to honor
a check written on the back of a fish.  I would probably try to
think of a reason for not cashing it; maybe I would return the
check for insuf"fish"ent funds.....

Besides where would you keep your cancelled fish?

--
Brett Fleisch
University of California Los Angeles
LOCUS Research Group
3804-f Boelter Hall
Los Angeles, CA 90024
Phone: (213) 825-2756, (213) 474-5317

brett@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU
{...sdcrdcf, ihnp4, trwspp, ucbvax}!ucla-cs!brett
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <753@well.UUCP> tenney@well.UUCP (Glenn S. Tenney) writes:
>> >     If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
>> >pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?  And
>
>If you have a free checking account (and you don't pay for checks)
>you could send them lots and lots of checks (which they have to process).
>Also, if banking regulations haven't changed, you can write a check on
>most anything provided that name, date, bank name, payee and amount are
>there.  I recollect people doing it on watermellons, fish and other
>items.  Of course I don't recommend doing any of these things :).
>Glenn Tenney

Might want to add your account number and signature to the above.     

Dave

> >
> >Same thing happened to me.  While I was living in DC I bought a car
> >in Maryland.  Then I moved to MD and had to pay sales tax again.  Then
> >I moved to California and had to pay yet again (fortunately, only on
> >the reduced value of the car, which was 3.5 years old by then).
> >
> This just doesn't sit right with me.  Does this mean that I'm going to have to
> pay sales tax to every state I move to on my new car?  What about in 5 or
> 6 years if I still own it?  Lets say I'm a floater and move often.  I could
> conceivably pay more in sales tax than the cost of the car!

Well first, in Maryland, once you pay the tax, either at purchase time
or when you move into the state, you don't ever have to pay the tax again.
This was fortunate as I moved from MD->CO->MD.  In Colorado, they make you
pay a tax (3% I believe) on the value of your car each year.  Needless to
say I moved back before it was time to renew.  Maryland only charges $20
a year, once you've been titled.

-Ron

I just recently went through this when moving form NJ to Taxachusettes
and bringing my 2 year old Datsun with me.  All I had to do to avoid
paying sales tax was show them my NJ ownership papers which stated I
paid the sales tax in NJ.  If you still have all the paperwork you
should probably be able to get the money refunded.  Good Luck.

					Mike Schloss
					panda!enmasse!mike

I too ran into this same problem when I moved from NH to Mass.
However, there are 2 things to remember:
	1) This person (as I did) bought the car in Mass.
So, just like anything else that this person may have bought in
Mass., he is charged a sales tax.  If he had come  into Mass. to 
buy a stereo (for instance), he could not get out of paying a sales
tax by saying he was from Vermont so he shouldn't have to pay one.
	2) In my case, when I proved that I had the car delivered
to NH (or I believe if I had in fact bought the car in NH), then
there would have been no sales tax.  In fact, this was the very case
with my motorcycle: I bought it in NH, so when I registered it in
Mass, no sales tax!

In the Vermonter's case, I believe if he could've come up with some
document showing he had paid in Vermont (all I needed was my old
NH registration), then he would have been alright.  However, this
might be just a case of beaurocratic inconsistences.

In article <604@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes:
>Massachusetts is notorious for taxing the hell out of
>anything; for example, if you live in New Hampshire (which has no
>income tax and seems to get along just fine) but work in Mass. then
>you must pay Mass. income tax just as if you lived there.

New Hampshire gets along fine as long as you need no quality education or
other social services.  I used to work for a real Live-Free-or-Die'er who
raised his kids to love the self-sufficient system pushed by old Cow Hampshire.
The kids got along fine... till one of THEM had a severely retarded child
and needed special education and services...

... so they moved to Taxachusetts.


-- 
*** Speak for the company?  Naaaah, it's hard enough speaking for ME! ***

 ... "What were you expecting, rock'n'roll?"                                  

Roger B.A. Klorese
Celerity Computing, 40 Speen St., Framingham, MA 01701, (617) 872-1772        
UUCP: seismo!harvard!bu-cs!celtics!roger, ucbvax!sdcsvax!celerity!celtics!roger
ARPA: bu-cs!celtics!roger@harvard.ARPA, celerity!celtics!roger@sdcsvax.ARPA

<Oh oh here it comes.  Watch out boy, it'll chew you up! \
Oh oh here it comes.  The LINE EATER!  [Line eater]>

In article <1081@terak.UUCP>, doug@terak.UUCP (Doug Pardee) writes:
>>      If I end up having to pay this tax,  can I pay them 626,018
>> pennies?  Can they refuse to accept pennies as legal tender?
>
>Yes, they can refuse.  "Non-silver" coins (pennies and nickels) are
>not legal tender in quantities exceeding 25 cents.  Seems kinda silly
>now that no coins are really made out of silver, and currency is no
>longer redeemable for silver.
>--
>Doug Pardee -- CalComp -- {hardy,savax,seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!terak!doug

So use dimes :-)
-- 
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 --------------------------------   Path: ..!{akgua,homxb,ihnp4,ltuxa,mvuxa,
						vax135}!ttrdc!levy

> In article <10133@amdcad.UUCP> phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) writes:
> >I imagine Taxachusetts is sticking you with a property tax, not a sales tax.
> Actually, it IS a sales tax.  Our Common"wealth" assumes that any attempt
> to import a car into the state within x amount of time (12, 18, or 24 months,
> I'm not sure) is an attempt to buy out of state and defraud the state.  So it
> charges you sales tax nonetheless, regardless of the reason.

This absurd but apparently legal injustice is perpetrated in other places
than Massachusetts. A roommate of mine moved from Mass to Pennsylvania a 
few years ago, and they charged him a sales tax on his car, which he had
bought some months earlier in Boston. He was furious, but he had to pay.
So don't single out Massachusetts for abuse on this one.

In article <2586@mit-hermes.ARPA>, jpexg@mit-hermes.ARPA (John Purbrick) writes:
> > In article <10133@amdcad.UUCP> phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) writes:
> > >I imagine Taxachusetts is sticking you with a property tax, not a sales tax.
> > Actually, it IS a sales tax.  Our Common"wealth" assumes that any attempt
> > to import a car into the state within x amount of time (12, 18, or 24 months,
> > I'm not sure) is an attempt to buy out of state and defraud the state.  So it
> > charges you sales tax nonetheless, regardless of the reason.
> 
> This absurd but apparently legal injustice is perpetrated in other places
> than Massachusetts. A roommate of mine moved from Mass to Pennsylvania a 
> few years ago, and they charged him a sales tax on his car, which he had
> bought some months earlier in Boston. He was furious, but he had to pay.
> So don't single out Massachusetts for abuse on this one.


     Believe it or not, that bastion of "mellowness" (California for the
uninitiated) does the exact same thing!!! My brother and his wife had three
cars (well, two cars and a truck) between the two of them, and since they
both work at the same place, they decided to give my parents one of the cars.
Now, my brother and his wife have been living in California for over two years,
BUT THEY STILL HAD TO PAY STATE SALES TAX!!! I thought California was supposed
to be a little more "considerate" of the people, but I guess not!!!! Luckily,
though, they were able to put down their own price for the car.



			A mildewy former Californian

In article <493@faron.UUCP> ao@faron.UUCP (Alan R. Ouellette) writes:
>..., I bought a new car
>from a Massachusetts car dealer (I got a good deal).  At the time,
>... I registered the car in Vermont, which involved paying
>sales tax to the state of Vermont.  I have since moved to 
>Massachusetts and I need to register my car in Massachusetts. 
...
>Massachusetts will not register my car until I pay them
>5% sales tax on the car, plus penalties and interest.
>...  So, the bottom line is that in order to register my
>car in Massachusetts, I have to pay the sales tax again.

First: I am aware that ao@faron posted a note that he had solved his problem,
but I have some general info about Mass. sales tax and car registration that
might be useful to others.

	The gist of it is that you don't have to pay sales taxes twice. You
can get credit for sales tax paid to another state. However if the tax you
paid is less than the Mass. tax you will have to pay the difference. If you
have ownd the car out of state long enough you can get the tax waived
entirely. (I don't know exactly how long but from experience ~2.5 years is
long enough.) The problem is that the people at the Registry of Motor Vehicles
probably won't tell you any of this, and in any case they can't give you the
credit. What you have to do is find an office of the State Tax Assesor (I
think that's the right name.) and take them your application for registration
and proof of the sales tax you paid to another state and ask them for an
abatement of the tax.

Hope this helps someone.

----
William J. Richard @ Charles River Data Systems
983 Concord St. Framingham, MA 01701
Tel: (617) 626-1112
uucp: ...!decvax!frog!wjr