🚀 go-pugleaf

> Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
> to collect it, Social Security will be long gone.  Meanwhile, SS
> takes a larger percentage of my income every year, with the maximum
> amount ever increasing.  
>  
> IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???

No.

In article <6152@alice.uUCp> ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) writes:
>> Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
>> to collect it, Social Security will be long gone.  Meanwhile, SS
>> takes a larger percentage of my income every year, with the maximum
>> amount ever increasing.  
>>  
>> IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
>
>No.


I remember reading somewhere that Federal government employees are
not obliged to contribute to the social security system. Anybody
wants to confirm that?

A few years ago, before I became a resident of this country, I was
on a work visa. My earnings were not subject to social security
tax. (I took a ~7% paycut and paid $82 (approx.) for the privilege
of remaining here!). 


-- 

_____________

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normally reserved for such persons in the course of the practice of 
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and unborn, should rely and act upon opinions expressed above. He/She do so
at his/her own risk.  

I do speak with dubious authority on matters of Electrical Engineering,
late T'ang dynasty poetic forms, a cat's right to self-determination, 
and Computer Science.

In article <126@raster.UUCP>, ross@raster.UUCP writes:
> Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
> to collect it, Social Security will be long gone.  Meanwhile, SS
> takes a larger percentage of my income every year, with the maximum
> amount ever increasing.  
>  
> IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
> <etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.>
>  
> !decvax!raster!ross

Actually, there is one way out that I know of, but it requires a very strong
commitment to avoiding SSI.  People of the Amish Dutch religion do not have
to pay into social security.  They are the only group I know that is exempt.
Their religion interprets any form of insurance as not trusting in God.  In
addition, they believe in taking care of their own.  For instance, when some
tornadoes destroyed some houses in Western PA last year, they helped their 
neighbors rebuild (free labor) and these neighbors were not even Amish.
Of course, if you decide to convert, you won't be able to sink your savings
from social security into a stereo system, as they don't believe in using
electricity.  That goes for computers too.

Debbie Platt (from account of Bob Platt)

In article <6152@alice.uUCp> ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) writes:
>> Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
>> to collect it, Social Security will be long gone. 
>>  
>> IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
>
>No.

Yes, sometimes.

If you sell your services as a consultant, you are not paid a salery and no
taxes are withheld.  You bill the company for services and are paid in full.
If you have incorporated as an 'S' corporation, the corporate profits can be
paid to you (the sole shareholder) without incuring any corporate income tax
This income is considered to be a dividend, not a salery.

> > Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
> > to collect it, Social Security will be long gone.  Meanwhile, SS
> > takes a larger percentage of my income every year, with the maximum
> > amount ever increasing.  
> >  
> > IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
> 
> No.

Alas, Andrew is right, there is no way out unless you are good or lucky
enought to get all of your income from investments.  The libertarian think
tank, the Cato Institute, has been working on an idea called the "Super IRA"
which would allow people to opt out of SS and put an equivalent amount into
a Super IRA account.  They've gotten the ears of a few congresscritters, but
not enough to even start to make a difference.

>>IS THERE ANY WAY OUT [of SS]???

In article <6152@alice.uUCp> ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) writes:
>No.

Not so.  There is one simple, legal way out.

Emigrate.

Confer with your Congresscritter; lobby for legislation; ask for
an Amendment.  But if all else fails, you can still vote with your
feet.
-- 
`What if they gave a law, and everyone left?'
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 1516)
UUCP:	seismo!umcp-cs!chris
CSNet:	chris@umcp-cs		ARPA:	chris@mimsy.umd.edu

In article <598@chinet.UUCP> magik@chinet.UUCP (Ben Liberman) writes:
>In article <6152@alice.uUCp> ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) writes:
>>> Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
>>> to collect it, Social Security will be long gone. 
>>>  
>>> IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
>>
>>No.
>
>Yes, sometimes.
>
>If you sell your services as a consultant, you are not paid a salery and no
>taxes are withheld.  You bill the company for services and are paid in full.
>If you have incorporated as an 'S' corporation, the corporate profits can be
>paid to you (the sole shareholder) without incuring any corporate income tax
>This income is considered to be a dividend, not a salery.

In general, SS taxes are only on wages.  So, if you can earn money
from sources other than wages, you won't have to pay SS taxes.

Examples, (in addition to the consulting suggestion above) are
to put all your money in the stock market, and earn enough in dividends,
capital gains, etc so you need not work for a living.  (The Rockefellers
had no trouble doing that.)   Or, you could invest a couple of dollars
in the lottery, and win a few million dollars.  (Or pay a visit to Las Vegas
and win big..  Very Big)   

My own opinion on what will happen to SS taxes, is that when it becomes
a really big issue, and so far it has been a loud and annoying one, but
not big enough to do anything drastic, then "they" will hide the SS tax by
moving some of it to income taxes, where no one can identify how much
will really be paid to SS.
-- 
Art Kamlet   AT&T Bell Laboratories  Columbus  {cbosgd | ihnp4}!cbrma!ask

> > Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
> > to collect it, Social Security will be long gone.  Meanwhile, SS
> > takes a larger percentage of my income every year, with the maximum
> > amount ever increasing.  
> >  
> > IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
> 
> No.

Actually, yes.  Get yourself elected to congress.  I believe that the law
exempts congressmen from having to pay social security taxes.  Incidently,
congressmen are exempt from many other laws too, for example, they are not
required to pay minimum wage to their employees, and they may legally
discriminate on the basis of age, sex, national origin, race, religion,
previous service in Vietnam, etc..

It used to be that federal employees were exempt from having to pay social
security taxes since they had their own pension plan.  However, this was
changed recently in order help keep Social Security from going broke.

Myself?  I just assume my social security taxes are going down a rat hole, just
like what the IRS takes.  I save what I can, and hope that inflation won't make
it worthless by the time I retire.  Hmmm,  Maybe I should learn subsistence
farming....

-- 
						I'm not a lumberjack
						and I'm not O.K.

						John Witters
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.  Inc.
						P.O.B. C9090 M/S 245F
						Everett, Washington  98206

						(206) 356-5274

In article <209@mipos3.UUCP> ekwok@mipos3.UUCP (Edward C. Kwok) writes:
>In article <6152@alice.uUCp> ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) writes:
>>> IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
>>No.
>I remember reading somewhere that Federal government employees are
>not obliged to contribute to the social security system. Anybody
>wants to confirm that?
>
Most Federal government employees (including the military), some 
state and local government employees, and many school districts 
are exempt from FICA.  This is how you get a 'double-dipper'.  A
'double-dipper' worked for some Federal agency and is covered 
by that agency's program.  The person retires at 55 and goes to
work for some company as a high priced consultant (telling them
how to get money out of the agency the person just left).  When
he (or she) retires at 65 (or maybe later) they get almost full
benefits out of both funds.  If they had worked in industry
for both jobs they would have only gotten benefits from FICA.
-- 
Brad Davis	{ihnp4, decvax, seismo}!utah-cs!b-davis	
		b-davis@utah-cs.ARPA
One drunk driver can ruin your whole day.

In article <1620@vax1.fluke.UUCP>, witters@fluke.UUCP writes:
> > Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
> > to collect it, Social Security will be long gone.  Meanwhile, SS
> > takes a larger percentage of my income every year, with the maximum
> > amount ever increasing.  
> >  
> > IS THERE ANY WAY OUT???
> 
> Actually, yes.  Get yourself elected to congress.  I believe that the law
> exempts congressmen from having to pay social security taxes.  Incidently,
> congressmen are exempt from many other laws too, for example, they are not
> required to pay minimum wage to their employees, and they may legally
> discriminate on the basis of age, sex, national origin, race, religion,
> previous service in Vietnam, etc..
> 
> It used to be that federal employees were exempt from having to pay social
> security taxes since they had their own pension plan.  However, this was
> changed recently in order help keep Social Security from going broke.
> 
> Myself?  I just assume my social security taxes are going down a rat hole,
> just like what the IRS takes.  I save what I can, and hope that inflation
> won't make it worthless by the time I retire.  Hmmm,  Maybe I should learn
> subsistence farming....
> 
> 						John Witters
> 						(206) 356-5274

John,

I don't think you are right about the Congressman.  You are right that
Federal Employeees used to have this.  Right now there are 4 exempt groups:
1) Ministers who have a substantiated religious objection to Social Security,
2) About 16% of local municipal employees (for Constitutional reasons),
3) Federal Employees hired before a certain date, and
4) Farmers (I think . . . I am not too sure about this one)

			       Mark Reina

In article <1620@vax1.fluke.UUCP> witters@fluke.UUCP writes:
>> > Like many other people, I believe that by the time I am old enough
>> > to collect it, Social Security will be long gone.  
>
>I just assume my social security taxes are going down a rat hole, just
>like what the IRS takes.  I save what I can, and hope that inflation won't make
>it worthless by the time I retire.  Hmmm,  Maybe I should learn subsistence
>farming....

I also assume that social security will not be around (at least
in its current form) by the time I retire.  However, since my
parents are retired, I view my social security payments as a transfer
of my income to my parents.  Now, if I can only figure out how
to get the middleman to reduce his overhead we would all be better
off :-).


-- 
-------------------------

{harvard,decvax}!wanginst!infinet!barnes	Jim Barnes

> Social Security is the world's most regressive tax; you get taxed
> from dollar one you make each year, and above a certain level
> of income, the tax is no longer levied.  

That's fair, though, since when they pay out, I think they pay everyone
pretty much the same amount.  Certainly there is a cap on the most
anyone can get.
		Cliff

About having to/not having to pay social security taxes..
 

> Right now there are 4 exempt groups:
(including)
> 4) Farmers (I think . . . I am not too sure about this one)
> 
You are wrong about farmers. Not only do farmers have to pay social security
taxes like anyone else, they also have the option of paying in if they
made too little profits to be able to pay in.

It seems to me that there is a solution to the SS mess.

First given that SS continually functions in the red...
Why not simply put a check box on the 1040 asking whether
the individual wishes to withdraw from SS, giving up all
that was paid in so far, or remain in the plan.

At the age of 18 ( or some other age that reflects maturity ) 
let each individual make this decision.  Once decided to 
withdraw, its irreversable.  

That way if you want out, you got it.  And you face any
consequences.  After all this is suppose to be the land
of freedom?

      *Steve Reber  Apollo Computer