🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

4 total messages Started by bolyard Tue, 11 Oct 1983 17:07
Wanted: Super Terminal for Programmers
#3
Author: bolyard
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1983 17:07
56 lines
3774 bytes
I am looking for a terminal designed for  a (unix) programmer. It is an
otherwise ordinary ASCII non-block-mode terminal with the following features:
1. A screen buffer at least two pages long, giving the programmer the ability
   to "scroll back" and see stuff that has scrolled off the top of the screen.
2. Real "user programmable softkeys". That is, keys whose output can actually
   be altered at the terminal, either by typing directly into a built-in menu
   screen, or by listing a file of commands from the host, ala HP2645.
3. A 24 x 80 format (of course).
4. Local editing functions, i.e. those that do not send any data to the host,
   such as "insert line", "delete line", "insert character", "delete char",
   arrow keys that move the cursor about the screen.
5. At least one alternate video attribute, like bright or dim or reverse, that
   does NOT take up a space on the screen to activate or deactivate.
6. Non-destructive backspace.

(So far this may sound very much like a Hewlett Packard 264x type terminal,
    but wait, there's more !! )

7. THIS IS THE FEATURE THAT MAKES THE *BIG* DIFFFERENCE !!
   It needs a key which, when pressed, causes the character on the screen
   underneath the cursor (that is, at the cursor's present position) to
   be sent to the host, as if it had just been typed!

   This key, which I wil call the "duplicate character" or "dup char" key,
   eliminates much retyping!! Imagine typing a long command string, only to
   discover (just before hitting return) that the first character was wrong !
   With this key, you just backspace to the character in error, retype it,
   and then press the dup char key until you have effectively retyped the 
   entire line. Or, if you left out a character from the third parameter,
   just backspace to the spot, press insert character - which causes the
   rest of the chars on that line to get pushed right one char for each
   depression - type the missing character, and "dup char" for the rest of
   the line.

   Usefull variations on this key are "DUP WORD" which repeatedly does 
   "dup char" until the next blank, and "DUP TO END OF LINE" which lets
   the programmer avoid having to hold down the "dup char" key a lot.

8. When the TAB key is pressed, the terminal should issue 1 to n ASCII
   space characters, until it has positioned the cursor at the next tab
   stop. Likewise, BACKTAB should issue some number of backspaces.

Okay, it probably sounds like I'm dreaming right ?? After all, with the
tens (hundreds ?) of terminal manufacturers out there, it doesn't make
sense that one of them should produce a usefull product...

But seriously, My former employer, a Burroughs subsidiary in Michigan,
actually reprogrammed visual 400's to work like this, and every programmer
had one on his/her desk. It was great !! But unfortunately, only for
their internal use, so I couldn't get one.

Surely somebody  has seen, or at least heard of, such a wonderful
beast. Please mail your response to me at the following UUCP mail address:
..!decvax!decwrl!amd70!fortune!bolyard

Sincerely,  Nelson Bolyard  ..!fortune!bolyard
Super Terminal =~= HP 2645
#5
Author: Dave Decot
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1983 01:53
38 lines
2413 bytes
You're right, your super-terminal does seem a lot like an HP 2645, except for
ONLY quality 8.  Quality 7 is already present in these terminals, in a
somewhat different way.  Suppose you typed:

	% grep coleslaw /user/divt/word

but you meant to give the standard path name for the online dictionary.  On
your 2645, you do the following:

Move the cursor (using the up, down, left, right, home keys) to the beginning
of the incorrect command line.  Delete the '%' with the DELETE CHAR key.
Move the cursor to the 'e' in 'user' with the -> key.  Delete the 'e'.
Move over to the wrong 'v' in 'divt' and type 'c'.  Move to the end of the line
and type an 's' after 'word'.  Press the down key, type your UNIX KILL
character, press the up key, and press the ENTER key.

If you don't like the business in the last sentence, you can push the BLOCK
MODE key before doing anything, and release it before pressing ENTER.
This method is also good if you have a lot of corrections to the stuff
on the screen.  This is not necessary at all if all you want to do is
delete extra characters or simply reenter a line.

To reenter an entire block of stuff, get rid of everything but the block on
the screen while BLOCK MODE is depressed, and then press ENTER without
leaving BLOCK MODE.  This will enter everything on the screen.

Note that your terminal must be set up so that the arrow keys and insert/delete
character don't echo to the computer, so that BLOCK MODE is engaged in the
down position, and so that a BLOCK MODE ENTER means page, not field.

Why do you want quality 8 anyway?  Termcap programs are the only ones who
would care what your terminal does with tabs, and if you do a

	% stty -tabs

UNIX generates spaces instead of ^I for you anyway.
----------------------------------------
Dave Decot	..!decvax!cwruecmp!decot
Re: Super Terminal =~= HP 2645
#7
Author: jlw
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1983 03:20
21 lines
1444 bytes
I'm glad I found another 2645 fan.  I've been using this series of
tubes for years on mainly BTL UNIX varieties and here's what I do.
First of all my prompt or PS1 is PS1=':; '  To the Bourne shell this
is a null command which causes it to just go around its command loop
once.  Second I use stty to set my kill character to ^X which is a
non printing character.  Finally I set the -lfkc option which keeps
UNIX from echoing a LF-CR pair with the line kill. Echoing a line
feed-carriage return with the kill is a fairly recent phenom.
Then I use the editing keys do delete and insert. I can also just
overwrite if I want.  Then its just Control-X and enter.

I personally find all these variant shells with their history
mechanisms overrated.



					Joseph L. Wood, III
					AT&T Information Systems
					Laboratories, Holmdel
					(201) 834-3759
					ariel!jlw
Re: Wanted: Super Terminal for Programmers
#13
Author: K.S. Bhaskar
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1983 00:59
18 lines
1638 bytes
You can get what you want with *almost* any terminal, if you use a human
interface (like emacs) that assumes that your human interface is a video
display unit and not a hard-copy device (like sh or csh).  You can customize
your human interface to your heart's content with an arbitrary number of
previous pages.  You can even lay out your keyboard differently if should so
desire.  Of course, what you need is a real window manager as your human
interface, but, unfortunately, our favorite operating system lacks (a) dynamic
linking and (b) classes / modules / objects which makes it somewhat
inconvenient, though not impossible, to write such a human interface with any
degree of efficiency.

Yes, 24x80 is for the birds, but, since I have trouble getting my employer to
buy me something better, at least I can have L-A-R-G-E buffer into which I can
stuff program output and look at it.

I am a born-again emacsimize-your-productivity believer!!!

-- K.S. Bhaskar (John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, Washington)
Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads