🚀 go-pugleaf

rebyitz@netcom.com (Yitz Etshalom) writes:

>Some help for a novice, please.  I do a lot of file sending to my Mac 
>through Z-Term.  In every case, I have to reformat the text (I'm using 
>MSWord 5.1x), changing the returns into end-of-lines, changing the 
>margin, etc.  Is there some protocol for sz (Send Z-Modem) which will 
>automatically reformat it, leaving me with less work on the Mac end?

Works fine for me.  I am guessing you may be having some problems 
relating to how word processors deal with text files.

What you do need to do is:  view it in a fixed width font such as Monaco 
or Courier.  All others have different letter widths, so 80 characters 
will end up with different right margins depending on the text.

You might also install a font from a communications program that will 
display control characters and other arcana that might show up in cyberspace.

Another thing:  MS Word for text files is kind of like using a tank to
kill a mosquito, both in capability and in memory used.  You should look
into a dedicated text editor -- much faster and more flexible for playing
with text files.  I use two:  McSink v. 6.5 is a DA text editor that is
very nice.  (v. 7 is less capable, because both are actually marketing
tools for the commercial version, Vantage, and v. 7 has more features
disabled). 

Then there's BBEdit, a full application.  I use v. 2.2.2, which is an 
earlier version that is entirely free.  The latest versions are paid 
shareware.  (BTW, McSink is shareware also, $45)

Each one has its advantages and disadvantages, so having both gives you 
lots of flexibility -- stripping the > quote characters, reformatting to 
different line widths, changing from return at end of line to return at 
end of paragraph, etc.

Hope this helps.

: John Seboldt   rohrwerk@netcom.com /   I am Bach of Borg...
: Amateur radio K0JD...             /     your style will be
: Church of the Annunciation,      /         assimilated.
: Minneapolis                     /

>rebyitz@netcom.com (Yitz Etshalom) writes:

>>Some help for a novice, please.  I do a lot of file sending to my Mac 
>>through Z-Term.  In every case, I have to reformat the text (I'm using 
>>MSWord 5.1x), changing the returns into end-of-lines, changing the 
>>margin, etc.  Is there some protocol for sz (Send Z-Modem) which will 
(etc., along with one good response, deleted for brevity)

(plus a novice attempt at advice, but it's my turn to contribute, disclaimer)

The biggest problem I have is when composing in word off-line, & then 
pasting it into a letter composed in zterm--and from reading jumbled 
posts, others have this problem too. Documents need to have a hard 
carridge return after every 80 characters for the words to wrap nicely.

Here's what I would do:

1-(most tedious) Physically add the appropriate returns while in word
2-(less tedious) See if your mail program has a command to "justify"--in 
pine & pico it is control-J
3-(most elegant) Eudora! This program makes email writing a joy.  You 
should be able to use this with a regular dial-in (i.e. non-SLIP or PPP) 
account if the system is configured for it--contact your sysop.

If any such dial-in netcom users are able to use Eudora, I'd appreciate 
if you would let me know!       --joe
-- 
  TECHNICAL TALENT - NYC - MUSIC PRODUCTION THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER

I have had a similar problem using Z-term and Word 5.1 and there are 
times when I NEED the output to work in Word because it is going to be 
used for something else.

What you are seeing is a line-feed character (^L) at the end of the lines 
and there is no way to strip it out with Z-term. The new version of Word 
(6.0) has a filter to eliminate this problem. But, not wanting to upgrade 
quite yet, I came up with a script for QuickKeys that does a 
search-and-replace in Word with a keystroke. If you are a QuickKeys user, 
I can send it to you. If not, just do a global change searching for "^L" 
(that's the up-carat - shift-6 - and "L") and change it to nothing 
(deleting it). There is another invisible character that appears at the 
end of the file, but it doesn't affect anything. Let me know how it works 
for you.

Ric.




Yitz Etshalom (rebyitz@netcom.com) wrote:
: Some help for a novice, please.  I do a lot of file sending to my Mac 
: through Z-Term.  In every case, I have to reformat the text (I'm using 
: MSWord 5.1x), changing the returns into end-of-lines, changing the 
: margin, etc.  Is there some protocol for sz (Send Z-Modem) which will 
: automatically reformat it, leaving me with less work on the Mac end?

: Thank you,

: Yitz Etshalom
: rebyitz@netcom.com
-- 
==========================================================================
*                                       |
*  Ric Getter                           |            
*  Editor - KTEH-TV 54                  |              This space
*  Public Television in                 |             intentionally
*  San Jose, California                 |              left blank.
*  rgetter@netcom.com                   |
*                                       |
==========================================================================

In article <rgetterD8Ds2w.B36@netcom.com>, rgetter@netcom.com (Ric Getter)
wrote:

 > What you are seeing is a line-feed character (^L) at the end of the lines 
 > and there is no way to strip it out with Z-term. The new version of Word 
 > (6.0) has a filter to eliminate this problem. But, not wanting to upgrade 
 > quite yet, I came up with a script for QuickKeys that does a 
 > search-and-replace in Word with a keystroke. If you are a QuickKeys user, 
 > I can send it to you. If not, just do a global change searching for "^L" 
 > (that's the up-carat - shift-6 - and "L") and change it to nothing 
 > (deleting it). There is another invisible character that appears at the 
 > end of the file, but it doesn't affect anything. Let me know how it works 
 > for you.

Actually, LineFeed characters are ^J (^10). (^L is page break/FormFeed.)
The end-of-file character is ^Z (^26).

 > Yitz Etshalom (rebyitz@netcom.com) wrote:
 > : Some help for a novice, please.  I do a lot of file sending to my Mac 
 > : through Z-Term.  In every case, I have to reformat the text (I'm using 
 > : MSWord 5.1x), changing the returns into end-of-lines, changing the 
 > : margin, etc.  Is there some protocol for sz (Send Z-Modem) which will 
 > : automatically reformat it, leaving me with less work on the Mac end?

I recommend purchasing ProTERM -- a new comm program for the Mac. It
includes a built-in text editor with lots of facilities for reformatting
text, not to mention a powerful scripting language. Super fast, too. Check
it out:

   http://www.indirect.com/user/proterm    (or maybe it's users/proterm)


-Walter

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
# Walter Ian Kaye: (602) 942-6390  FoxPro/Excel Programmer; Guitarist     #
# Correspond to:   boo@primenet.com, boodlums@genie.com                   #
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In article <rohrwerkD8A31r.n3J@netcom.com>,
John Seboldt <rohrwerk@netcom.com> wrote:
>rebyitz@netcom.com (Yitz Etshalom) writes:
>
>>Some help for a novice, please.  I do a lot of file sending to my Mac 
>>through Z-Term.  In every case, I have to reformat the text (I'm using 
>>MSWord 5.1x), changing the returns into end-of-lines, changing the 
>>margin, etc.  Is there some protocol for sz (Send Z-Modem) which will 
>>automatically reformat it, leaving me with less work on the Mac end?
>
>Works fine for me.  I am guessing you may be having some problems 
>relating to how word processors deal with text files.
>
>What you do need to do is:  view it in a fixed width font such as Monaco 
>or Courier.  All others have different letter widths, so 80 characters 
>will end up with different right margins depending on the text.
>
>You might also install a font from a communications program that will 
>display control characters and other arcana that might show up in cyberspace.
>
>Another thing:  MS Word for text files is kind of like using a tank to
>kill a mosquito, both in capability and in memory used.  You should look
>into a dedicated text editor -- much faster and more flexible for playing
>with text files.  I use two:  McSink v. 6.5 is a DA text editor that is
>very nice.  (v. 7 is less capable, because both are actually marketing
>tools for the commercial version, Vantage, and v. 7 has more features
>disabled). 

I have researched this problem is some depth, and it is my conclusion 
that PlainText (latest version 1.5.3) is far and away the VERY BEST text 
editor for general purpose use on the Macintosh. It is quick, has 
excellent keyboard editing shortcuts, _has SOFT word-wrapping_ (which, in 
my view, is ESSENTIAL), and many features which make it a pleasure to 
use. And perhaps best of all, it is FREE. There is currently NO 
competition out there in the jungle.
>
>Then there's BBEdit, a full application.  I use v. 2.2.2, which is an 
>earlier version that is entirely free.  The latest versions are paid 
>shareware.  (BTW, McSink is shareware also, $45)

Not so. BBEdit Lite 3.0 is freeware and has numerous bells and whistles. 
Unfortunately, however, it HARD-wraps words, automatically adding a 
carriage return at the end of each line. This is a MAJOR drawback, since 
editing following this automatic word-wrapping can be a _real pain_. Use 
PlainText and you will not have this problem.

It is available both at UMich and Sumex-aim, although I do not believe 
that version 1.5.2 is there yet. However, version 1.5.1 is released and 
1.5.2 is only slightly different. 

Try it. You'll love it!
>
>Each one has its advantages and disadvantages, so having both gives you 
>lots of flexibility -- stripping the > quote characters, reformatting to 
>different line widths, changing from return at end of line to return at 
>end of paragraph, etc.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>: John Seboldt   rohrwerk@netcom.com /   I am Bach of Borg...
>: Amateur radio K0JD...             /     your style will be
>: Church of the Annunciation,      /         assimilated.
>: Minneapolis                     /
>

In article <3onbrj$5b5@panix.com>, Joseph Hornof <hornof@panix.com> wrote:
>>rebyitz@netcom.com (Yitz Etshalom) writes:
>
>>>Some help for a novice, please.  I do a lot of file sending to my Mac 
>>>through Z-Term.  In every case, I have to reformat the text (I'm using 
>>>MSWord 5.1x), changing the returns into end-of-lines, changing the 
>>>margin, etc.  Is there some protocol for sz (Send Z-Modem) which will 
>(etc., along with one good response, deleted for brevity)
>
>(plus a novice attempt at advice, but it's my turn to contribute, disclaimer)
>
>The biggest problem I have is when composing in word off-line, & then 
>pasting it into a letter composed in zterm--and from reading jumbled 
>posts, others have this problem too. Documents need to have a hard 
>carridge return after every 80 characters for the words to wrap nicely.
>
>Here's what I would do:
>
>1-(most tedious) Physically add the appropriate returns while in word
>2-(less tedious) See if your mail program has a command to "justify"--in 
>pine & pico it is control-J
>3-(most elegant) Eudora! This program makes email writing a joy.  You 
>should be able to use this with a regular dial-in (i.e. non-SLIP or PPP) 
>account if the system is configured for it--contact your sysop.

Best solution: Use PlainText. The necessary end-of-line conversions are a 
snap.

>
>If any such dial-in netcom users are able to use Eudora, I'd appreciate 
>if you would let me know!       --joe
>-- 
>  TECHNICAL TALENT - NYC - MUSIC PRODUCTION THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER

In article <boo-1205951300450001@ip050.phx.primenet.com>,
Walter Ian Kaye <boo@primenet.com> wrote:
>In article <rgetterD8Ds2w.B36@netcom.com>, rgetter@netcom.com (Ric Getter)
>wrote:
>
> > What you are seeing is a line-feed character (^L) at the end of the lines 
> > and there is no way to strip it out with Z-term. The new version of Word 
> > (6.0) has a filter to eliminate this problem. But, not wanting to upgrade 
> > quite yet, I came up with a script for QuickKeys that does a 
> > search-and-replace in Word with a keystroke. If you are a QuickKeys user, 
> > I can send it to you. If not, just do a global change searching for "^L" 
> > (that's the up-carat - shift-6 - and "L") and change it to nothing 
> > (deleting it). There is another invisible character that appears at the 
> > end of the file, but it doesn't affect anything. Let me know how it works 
> > for you.
>
>Actually, LineFeed characters are ^J (^10). (^L is page break/FormFeed.)
>The end-of-file character is ^Z (^26).
>
> > Yitz Etshalom (rebyitz@netcom.com) wrote:
> > : Some help for a novice, please.  I do a lot of file sending to my Mac 
> > : through Z-Term.  In every case, I have to reformat the text (I'm using 
> > : MSWord 5.1x), changing the returns into end-of-lines, changing the 
> > : margin, etc.  Is there some protocol for sz (Send Z-Modem) which will 
> > : automatically reformat it, leaving me with less work on the Mac end?
>
>I recommend purchasing ProTERM -- a new comm program for the Mac. It
>includes a built-in text editor with lots of facilities for reformatting
>text, not to mention a powerful scripting language. Super fast, too. Check
>it out:
>
>   http://www.indirect.com/user/proterm    (or maybe it's users/proterm)

Don't buy anything! Pick up PlainText at UMich or Sumex-aim. It is FREE.
>
>
>-Walter
>
># # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
># Walter Ian Kaye: (602) 942-6390  FoxPro/Excel Programmer; Guitarist     #
># Correspond to:   boo@primenet.com, boodlums@genie.com                   #
># BinHex files:    boo@primenet.com   WWW: http://www.primenet.com/~boo/  #
># # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

In article <boo-1605950122330001@ip034.phx.primenet.com>,
Walter Ian Kaye <boo@primenet.com> wrote:
>In article <slvrmnD8Jrtr.J37@netcom.com>, slvrmn@netcom.com (Albert
>Silverman) wrote:
>
> > I have researched this problem is some depth, and it is my conclusion 
> > that PlainText (latest version 1.5.3) is far and away the VERY BEST text 
> > editor for general purpose use on the Macintosh. It is quick, has 
> > excellent keyboard editing shortcuts, _has SOFT word-wrapping_ (which, in 
> > my view, is ESSENTIAL), and many features which make it a pleasure to 
> > use. And perhaps best of all, it is FREE. There is currently NO 
> > competition out there in the jungle.
>
>Maybe not for free, but for $5, there sure is: Tex-Edit Plus 1.3.4. It has
>soft word wrapping, supports Macintosh Drag and Drop, Speech Manager,
>STYLED text (fully compatible with SimpleText), colored text, set default
>font/size and window size/position, Mac/DOS/Unix end-of-line conversions,
>handles files of any size, smart quote/ligature conversions, and much
>more.
>
> > Try it. You'll love it!
>
>I tried it, and read the docs -- it's no match for Tex-Edit Plus.
>
Unfortunately, I have an older computer and am using system 6.0.7. 
Tex-Edit Plus does not work with system 6. I have researched the system 6 
version of this program (Tex-Edit v2.7.2) and find that it not only has a 
bug, but cannot handle large files very well, and lacks certain keyboard 
editing shortcuts (selecting text with the shift key), due to its being 
designed around the use of the extended keyboard, which I do not have.

Even so, I believe that Tex-Edit (system 6 version) is the second-best 
out there, for use with my particular setup. And for $5, anyone who can 
use Tex-Edit Plus will certainly be getting an outstanding value. For all 
intents and purposes, a cost of only $5 is "freeware."

> > > BBEdit Lite 
3.0 is freeware and has numerous bells and whistles. 
> > Unfortunately, however, it HARD-wraps words, automatically adding a 
> > carriage return at the end of each line.
>
>BBEdit 3.1 (the pay version, anyway) finally added soft-wrapping. Just FYI.
>
I am aware of this fact. My comments were addressed ONLY to the Lite 
version of this product, which I consider to be useless for most purposes.

>
>-Walter
>
># # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
># Walter Ian Kaye: (602) 942-6390  FoxPro/Excel Programmer; Guitarist     #
># Correspond to:   boo@primenet.com, boodlums@genie.com                   #
># BinHex files:    boo@primenet.com   WWW: http://www.primenet.com/~boo/  #
># # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

boo@primenet.com (Walter Ian Kaye) writes:

>In article <slvrmnD8Jrtr.J37@netcom.com>, slvrmn@netcom.com (Albert
>Silverman) wrote:

> > I have researched this problem is some depth, and it is my conclusion 
> > that PlainText (latest version 1.5.3) is far and away the VERY BEST text 
> > editor for general purpose use on the Macintosh. It is quick, has 
> > excellent keyboard editing shortcuts, _has SOFT word-wrapping_ (which, in 
> > my view, is ESSENTIAL), and many features which make it a pleasure to 
> > use. And perhaps best of all, it is FREE. There is currently NO 
> > competition out there in the jungle.

I got it on your suggestion, and it is pretty nice.  I disagree on your 
asssessment of soft vs. hard wrapping; you gotta remember to hard wrap 
for anything you'll upload for mailing or sending to others.  Matter of 
personal taste, I guess.  An odd thing though:  it suddenly will not open 
files from a dialog box!  Instead it opens up a window with a filename 
that was deleted.  Wierd... even after re-loading another copy from the 
.sit archive.  It also just quits unexpectedly if you exceed the 
partition limit.  The "command line" functions are nice -- get a 
directory listing in a window, put "open" in front of it, and it opens 
without waiting for the file dialog box.  Shades of UNIX...

>Maybe not for free, but for $5, there sure is: Tex-Edit Plus 1.3.4. It has
>soft word wrapping, supports Macintosh Drag and Drop, Speech Manager,
>STYLED text (fully compatible with SimpleText), colored text, set default
>font/size and window size/position, Mac/DOS/Unix end-of-line conversions,
>handles files of any size, smart quote/ligature conversions, and much
>more.

I take it the new version has exceeded the 32K limit of the version I 
tried 2 years ago ? :-)

> > Try it. You'll love it!

>I tried it, and read the docs -- it's no match for Tex-Edit Plus.


> > BBEdit Lite 3.0 is freeware and has numerous bells and whistles. 
> > Unfortunately, however, it HARD-wraps words, automatically adding a 
> > carriage return at the end of each line.

No problem for me.  THe neat thing about BBEdit is that it will take the 
memory it needs beyond the alloted partition as it needs it.

>BBEdit 3.1 (the pay version, anyway) finally added soft-wrapping. Just FYI.


>-Walter

I still am using a combination of McSink 6.5, BBEdit, and SimpleText.  
Different tool for different jobs...

: John Seboldt   rohrwerk@netcom.com /   I am Bach of Borg...
: Amateur radio K0JD...             /     your style will be
: Church of the Annunciation,      /         assimilated.
: Minneapolis                     /

In article <rohrwerkD8wwso.K8M@netcom.com>, rohrwerk@netcom.com (John
Seboldt) wrote:

 > boo@primenet.com (Walter Ian Kaye) writes:
 > 
 > >Maybe not for free, but for $5, there sure is: Tex-Edit Plus 1.3.4. It has
 > >soft word wrapping, supports Macintosh Drag and Drop, Speech Manager,
 > >STYLED text (fully compatible with SimpleText), colored text, set default
 > >font/size and window size/position, Mac/DOS/Unix end-of-line conversions,
 > >handles files of any size, smart quote/ligature conversions, and much
 > >more.
 > 
 > I take it the new version has exceeded the 32K limit of the version I 
 > tried 2 years ago ? :-)

Yes, the "Plus" version is completely new -- it uses a totally different
text-editing engine from the "non-plus" version, and therefore does not
suffer from the file size limitation that SimpleText et al suffer from.
Oh, and as Albert reminded, it also requires System 7... but you use that
anyway. :)

Incidentally, the text-editing engine that SimpleText uses was originally
designed for use in dialog boxes, not word processors, so 32K was quite
sufficient...and still is for that! ;)


 > I still am using a combination of McSink 6.5, BBEdit, and SimpleText.  
 > Different tool for different jobs...

I haven't used SimpleText in months -- I open all ST docs into Tex-Edit
Plus, including the 'ttro' (read-only) ones. Nice thing is, it lets you
select text for copying -- ST only beeps at you. ;)  I even went so far as
to sic DiskTop and QuicKeys on my hard disk, to convert all my TEXT/ttxt
docs to TEXT/TBB6, so that double-clicking would launch Tex-Edit Plus
instead! It does a perfect job of replacing SimpleText, except that it
doesn't play QuickTime movies (but then, I use MoviePlayer for that).

    ftp://ftp.primenet.com/users/b/boo/tex-edit-plus-134.sit.hqx


-Walter

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
# Walter Ian Kaye: (602) 942-6390  FoxPro/Excel Programmer; Guitarist     #
# Correspond to:   boo@primenet.com, boodlums@genie.com                   #
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