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10 total messages Started by PETER VOROBIEFF Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:05
A R G I C allows itself far too much
#112
Author: PETER VOROBIEFF
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:05
78 lines
3230 bytes
Hi there! 

The above message contains some, hmm, not very parliamentary expressions,
so, if a coarse speech of a warrior may offend you, do not read below the
line. 














-------------------------------------------------------------------



I've been studying the Mudlu/Argiq issue for some time involuntarily,
because some naive people still argue with the insane postings of the wimp
(group of wimps? wimp-controlled junkmailing device?) and too often
I have to read their postings with quotations from that filthy Argiq
stuff. 

A R G I C _is_ a problem that must be dealt with because:

1. The amount of its postings is immense: sometimes they constitute 
   _m_o_r_e___t_h_a_n____a____h_a_l_f  of the daily mail in 
   soc.culture.soviet, for instance.

2. 99.99% of these postings are _g_e_n_e_r_a_t_e_d_ with no human influence:
   some program scans the mail for references to Turqey, Armaenia, genocyde,
   the dear Argiq entity itself etc. and then creates "answers" using the
   once-and-forever-set scheme:
			"you said this"
			<insult>
			<1000th reprint of the same bloody article>
   I have misspelled all Argiq-baits, so probably this letter will be
   unanswered.
   If there are no Argiq-baits, the messages are generated as new postings.

3. I speak nothing about the contents of the articles, but Dr. Goebbels
   would like at least the style of Argiq presentation of materials.

4. There is no mail link back to Argiq, so it gets nothing that it deserves.


The abovementioned facts make me consider the presense of ARGIQ entity on
the net as a sacrifice of the right for freedom speech of, maybe, thousands 
of PEOPLE for the sake of maintaining this right for one dumb mailing ROBOT.   

ARGIQ postings _do_ endanger the right for freedom of speech. They erode the
newsgroups (as it was already mentioned by somebody); you cannot answer 
back to ARGIQ; if you are a college student with not enough priority to
run your own killfile, you have to dig through _tons_ of Argiq crap in
order to read something meaningful in many areas.

If somebody tells you, "All right, you have the freedom of speech, you can
say what you want and read what you want, but all the time you'll be
doing this I'll be shitting on your head," you will definitely give away
the freedom of speech to keep your head out of shit, and though no violence 
is involved and all choices are free, you will be SHUT UP.

I don't want to. Especially by a cowardly ROBOT. Hope you don't like
the opportunity either. So let's do something with that net bain, for
it is said, "Thou shalt suffer not a wimp on the net to live!" :@)




-- 
---
Thus spake Kalmoth the Dreaded, Bane of the Forests of Gnoy.
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#120
Author: Tim Pierce
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:49
15 lines
1178 bytes
In article <1992Dec21.200548.75099@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:

>2. 99.99% of these postings are _g_e_n_e_r_a_t_e_d_ with no human influence:
>   some program scans the mail for references to Turqey, Armaenia, genocyde,
>   the dear Argiq entity itself etc. and then creates "answers" using the
>   once-and-forever-set scheme:

I doubt this.  I have had "Turkey" in my Organization line for well
over a week and seen no response whatsoever.  I will probably put it
in my .signature next.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#139
Author: Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:55
32 lines
1864 bytes
In article <Bzn3u4.Lpp@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>I doubt this.  I have had "Turkey" in my Organization line for well
>over a week and seen no response whatsoever.  I will probably put it
>in my .signature next.

You are not trying hard enough. 

Watch:

(* Armenians Greeks 2.5 Millions Mutlu Arxid AT&T Chicago IL *)

Nothing happens.

but when I use the signatur-o-matic program, he'll respond...

              ___        _____________________________
             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 
}}            \  __/ ___| Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene! |       for Real People
}}}    ____   / /    \          (Old Turkish Proverb) |
}}}}__/}}}}\_/ /      \_______________________________| Feathers: Real Clothes
}}/  }}}}}}    \                                               for real Chicken
  \   }}}}   }}/                                              
   \__ }}____}/        Spiros Triantafyllopoulos        
      \ /              c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com    
       |/_                                               
       '\               

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#148
Author: Todd H.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 13:22
18 lines
1120 bytes
pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:

>4. There is no mail link back to Argiq, so it gets nothing that it deserves.

I've been watching everyone wail and moan about this trouble for a long time
now, and I can't believe that y'all haven't hit upon the obvious solution to
the 'no mail link' problem.

Just move down the path until you get a real system, and hit the postmaster
with your mail.  If he's not the one responsible for passing the trash along,
he'll certainly find out who is, and let you know once he begins receiving
the ire that the real culprit deserves.

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
**** I voted with the majority this past election - AGAINST Clinton! ****
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#162
Author: Jurgen Botz
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 19:09
13 lines
1104 bytes
In article <1992Dec24.132250.12357@refrig.dixie.com> todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.) writes:
>pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
>>4. There is no mail link back to Argiq, so it gets nothing that it deserves.
>
>Just move down the path until you get a real system, and hit the postmaster
>with your mail.                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...

--
Jurgen Botz                                               jbotz@mtholyoke.edu
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#166
Author: Ken Bibb
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:10
20 lines
1523 bytes
In <BzxMJI.LG4@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

>In article <1992Dec24.132250.12357@refrig.dixie.com> todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.) writes:
>>pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
>>>4. There is no mail link back to Argiq, so it gets nothing that it deserves.
>>
>>Just move down the path until you get a real system, and hit the postmaster
>>with your mail.                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
>a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
>about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...

But can it refuse service because a *human* isn't behind the posts?

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#172
Author: Bob Snyder
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:07
11 lines
1127 bytes
In article <BzxMJI.LG4@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

   That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
   a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
   about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...

Hmmmmmmmm.  Other "common carriers" like the phone company will end service
based on anti-social activities (like dialing every number in an exchange a la
WarGames); could the same arguement be used here?

Bob
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#175
Author: Steve Simmons
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:28
61 lines
2540 bytes
trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:

>In article <BzxMJI.LG4@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

>>   That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
>>   a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
>>   about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...

>Hmmmmmmmm.  Other "common carriers" like the phone company will end service
>based on anti-social activities (like dialing every number in an exchange a la
>WarGames); could the same arguement be used here?

A quick scan thru the uucp maps and mx records shows that anatolia.mn.org
has no listed connection to uunet.  They are a member of mn.org, a domain
park connecting thru tcnet.

Their mx records are:

  anatolia.mn.org preference = 100, mail exchanger = UUM1.MN.ORG
  anatolia.mn.org preference = 200, mail exchanger = geom.umn.edu

The site manager for anatolia is listed as cosar@anatolia.MN.ORG,
Ahmet Cosar, phone +1 612 672 9715.

The site manager for tcnet is listed as Greg Kemnitz, mailadm@mn.org,
+1 612 475 1527.

Whois shows no listing for geom.umn.edu.  For umn.edu, it shows:

	University of Minnesota (UMN-DOM)
	Networking Services
	Computer and Information Services
	University of minnesota
	130 Lind Hall
	207 Church St. SE
	Minneapolis, MN  55455-0134

	Domain Name: UMN.EDU

	Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
	Finseth, Craig A.  (CAF29)  fin@unet.umn.edu
	(612) 624-3375

Whois shows no listing for uum1.mn.org.  For mn.org it shows:

	MN.ORG Domain Park (MN-DOM)
	P.O. Box 47804
	Plymouth, MN  55447-0804

	Domain Name: MN.ORG

	Administrative Contact:
	Kemnitz, Greg  (GK132)  GK@KKSYS.COM
	(612) 475-1527
	Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
	Haapala, Clayton  (CH142)  clayh@UUM1.MN.ORG
	(612) 424-4888 ext. ext 2436

Me, I'm kind of curious to see what Karl is gonna do.
-- 
	"You can't get here from here."
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#186
Author: Todd H.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:49
26 lines
1657 bytes
jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

>In article <1992Dec24.132250.12357@refrig.dixie.com> todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.) writes:
>>pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
>>>4. There is no mail link back to Argiq, so it gets nothing that it deserves.
>>
>>Just move down the path until you get a real system, and hit the postmaster
>>with your mail.                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
>a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
>about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...

I disagree.  Uunet is a business, and can do anything it wants to.  The
communication links they carry aren't regulated by the government, so far as
I know, and they aren't a public utility, so they're free to cut off anyone
that they want.

Y'all are just afraid to take on the task of pressuring an organization as
large as uunet, perhaps for fear of retribution??  Seems pretty silly, really.

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
**** I voted with the majority this past election - AGAINST Clinton! ****
Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
#187
Author: Jason Molenda
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:05
45 lines
3002 bytes
scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes:

>A quick scan thru the uucp maps and mx records shows that anatolia.mn.org
>has no listed connection to uunet.  They are a member of mn.org, a domain
>park connecting thru tcnet.

although there is no connection in the maps between uunet and
anatolia.mn.org, that is how the news is flowing.  Please don't waste
your time (and theirs) by contacting the people who run the mn.org
domain park or the University of Minnesota networking operations (the
information provided by whois about umn.edu.)  The Geometry center
(geom.umn.edu) has nothing to do with this, either.

The mn.org domain park provides _mail_ access to UUCP sites in Minnesota
for a modest (~$60 I think) fee.  They are in a rather tight spot as the
person who runs anatolia.mn.org has paid their fees.

Every time someone mail-bombs anatolia.mn.org, it affects the mn.org
mailer system and, as a result, all the UUCP folks in mn.org who depend
on that for their mail access.  It has crashed the gateway machine once
hard and caused it to hiccup at least one other time, I have heard.

Even if the mn.org folks manage to drop anatolia.mn.org, they will
still have their connection with UUNET and will have little trouble
continuing to output garbage to the net.

The mn.org people are working on a shoestring budget and most of the
people are doing the work in their spare time.  Please don't make it
any harder on them than it is already; they're already aware of the
problem and are doing everything they can at this point.

As an interesting aside, if one were to check directory assistance for
Minneapolis (612-555-1212), one might notice that there is in fact a
phone listing for both Ahmet Cosar and a certain S. Ardic.  THESE MAY
OR MAY NOT BE THE SAME TWO PEOPLE AS WE KNOW AND LOVE ON THE NET.
Don't around making harassing calls in the middle of the evening or
anything; I have no idea if these are the same folks.

It is also interesting to note that Ahmet Cosar appears to be a grad
student in the computer science department and, therefore, has a mail
account there (i.e. cosar@cs.umn.edu).
-- 
Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F
               just another elitist Usenet administrator
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