🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1h8l38INN7f0@agate.berkeley.edu> dev.null (Serdar Argic is a fool) writes:
>I am curious what "Serdar Argic", the AI daemon dedicated to defending
>the honor of the Turks against those evil Armenians, will do with this
>article.
>
>
>--
>Joe Buck	jbuck@ohm.berkeley.edu

  I am still trying to figure out what genocide has to do with news 
administration policies.  I did notice that the quotes have been
reasonably accurate, but no permission to copy has been given to
quote these major passages.  At least one of the documents being quoted
includes the statement "No part of this work may be reproduced in any way
without permission of ...".  Does this mean that he is violating copyright
laws and the Berne Convention, and therefore using the net for illegal 
acts?

  In his defense, he has a right (in the U.S.) to say the things he is saying.
I just wish that he understood that his methods have alienated a great many
people who still feel that what is going on in Eastern Europe is horrific. 
People that feel very deeply that what is going on is wrong and should be
stopped, and are trying through the PROPER CHANNELS.  I don't really think
that news.admin.policy is the correct place.

  Sergar, please talk to the U.N.  They are waffleing on whether to do 
anything about the internal affairs of your country.  Make them see your 
point, and make them do something about it.  I don't want to add you to my
kill file, but I may have to if you don't stick the the charter of this group.

Dave Burgess

In article <1ha2rnINNbd6@hrd769.brooks.af.mil> news@hrd769.brooks.af.mil (InterNet News) writes:

>  I am still trying to figure out what genocide has to do with news 
>administration policies.  

Genocide of groups like soc.culture.(greek turkish yugoslavia), talk.
politics.(mideast soviet), soc.history... In all these groups, Mutlu
accounts for 50-75 % of volume, and if you count followups, up to 90%.

>I did notice that the quotes have been
>reasonably accurate, 

Mutlu's own sources have claimed that he is wrong. Prof. McCarthy in
particular, and others as well. A classic example of selective quoting
is Mutlu's work with Rawlinson's book, as indicated last summer by
a fellow netter. Quote editing and manipulation are quite usual for him.

>but no permission to copy has been given to
>quote these major passages.  At least one of the documents being quoted
>includes the statement "No part of this work may be reproduced in any way
>without permission of ...".  Does this mean that he is violating copyright
>laws and the Berne Convention, and therefore using the net for illegal 
>acts?

Yet the same Hasan B Mutlu, the pride of AT&T of chicago, Il. slandered
people as 'criminals' when they obtained a GIF picture of him posted in
an IEEE magazine article (he's an accomplished author in the field of
data communications and networking). His complaint was about them
violating IEEE's copyright.

>  In his defense, he has a right (in the U.S.) to say the things he is saying.

As long as he pays for it. We misunderstand Free Speech to mean we can
say anything. I would have no problem with Mutlu sitting on the fountain
in Major Daley Square in Chicago while he shouts his stuff to passers-by.
It's his time and no money is involved).

I would have no trouble if he sends letters to the editor to all newspapers
in the world, presenting his viewpoints.

But he pays a few dollars a month to UUNET for a one direction only news
feed. Not that UUNET would ever release connection times with 
anatolia.mn.org (Hi, Ahmet!) but I'd bet it's POST-ONLY. So, for a few
dollars a week out of pocket cost to him he gets 2 1/2 million readers.
Pretty bloody economical, wouldn'nt you say? 

Mutlu's actual cost to the net is not much; compare his volume to one
post in comp.binaries and he's minor league. But the precedent he
sets, namely, that USENET is too slow or too unwilling to respond to
even MAJOR abusers is extremely scary.

>I just wish that he understood that his methods have alienated a great many
>people who still feel that what is going on in Eastern Europe is horrific. 

Only the Mutlu Newbies (tm). Us experienced Mutluers know better :-)

>People that feel very deeply that what is going on is wrong and should be
>stopped, and are trying through the PROPER CHANNELS.  I don't really think
>that news.admin.policy is the correct place.

Ah, proper channels. For months Argic/Mutlu posted maybe 10 messages a day
about Greeks of 1500 years ago abusing Jews (while both were under the 
Roman Empire :-)). None of the messages was ever posted in soc.culture.
jewish, but many were posted in soc.culture.german/australia/yugoslavia/
bulgaria...

>  Sergar, please talk to the U.N.  They are waffleing on whether to do 
>anything about the internal affairs of your country.  

BZZZZZZZZZZZZT. Serdar Argic does not exist. Hasan B Mutlu, his real name,
is Turkish. If he was anythwhere near interested in what is happening in
the region he'd post a constructive comment once in a while.

>Make them see your 
>point, and make them do something about it.  

His only point is to slander any previous 'Ottoman Empire Subject', i.e
Armenians, Greeks, Cypriots, Eastern Europeans, etc.

>I don't want to add you to my
>kill file, but I may have to if you don't stick the the charter of this group.

I don't think he cares...

>Dave Burgess

By the way, I have been following Mutlu's accomplishments for a few years
now. He is not likely to stop, and, for better or worse, UUNET is not
likely to drop him. So, those of you (us) who find him entertaining hang
in there (ever since he became Argic he became much less funny). Those
of you who hate him use a kill file or learn to live with him.

Kind of like the USENET version of herpes.

Regards,

Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
USENET self appointed expert on Hasan Mutlu/Serdar Argic (send email for FAQ).
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]

In article <1h8l38INN7f0@agate.berkeley.edu> dev.null (Joe Buck) writes:
>>I am curious what "Serdar Argic", the AI daemon dedicated to defending
>>the honor of the Turks against those evil Armenians, will do with this
>>article.

Hmm... it appears that there is a human in the loop after all, since
he succeeded in posting this message and moving my name from the signature
to the header.

In article <9212231951@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
>For whatever reason, you do not seem to understand that you would be
>better off leaving certain topics alone, if you don't want things to
>blow up in your face. Besides, leave the criminal members of the
>ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle alone. They have been trashed
>long time ago.

By his own words, Serdar Argic confirms the accusations against him,
that his purpose in posting is not to express an opinion but to keep
others from expressing theirs ("... you would be better off leaving
certain topics alone ...").  Given this, I see no obligation on the
part of anyone on the net to permit him to harrass people into silence.

Just who are you, Mr. Argic, to say that I should leave some topics
alone?  And what, exactly, are you referring to when you warn of things
blowing up in my face?  Is this a threat?
--
Joe Buck	jbuck@ohm.berkeley.edu

In <1992Dec23.164853.27785@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>In article <1ha2rnINNbd6@hrd769.brooks.af.mil> news@hrd769.brooks.af.mil (InterNet News) writes:

>But he pays a few dollars a month to UUNET for a one direction only news
>feed. Not that UUNET would ever release connection times with 
>anatolia.mn.org (Hi, Ahmet!) but I'd bet it's POST-ONLY. So, for a few
>dollars a week out of pocket cost to him he gets 2 1/2 million readers.
>Pretty bloody economical, wouldn'nt you say? 

>Mutlu's actual cost to the net is not much; compare his volume to one
>post in comp.binaries and he's minor league. But the precedent he
>sets, namely, that USENET is too slow or too unwilling to respond to
>even MAJOR abusers is extremely scary.

I suggest that those of you who have problems with Ahmet/Argic/Mutlu
send email to THEIR feed (uunet) to see if they plan on doing anything
about this problem.

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce