🚀 go-pugleaf

You sign your posts "just my opinion."  That is the only truth your posts
contain, for they are utterly devoid of facts, reason, and the significant
relationship the two play in an argument.

There are many reasons why certain people will always be in a minority:
they are smart, they are stupid, or they are insane.  Suffice it say that
you are not smart.

<rhawk@megabits.net> wrote in message
news:3b4917df.588485@news.megabits.net...
>
> I think of the Davidians that died in the compound at the instruction
> of COWARDLY Beaurocrats, Then I look at the picture of the federal
> building with the front blown off and I think, Paybacks are a bitch..
>
> Just my opinion..
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:15:43 -0700, "An Entity" <anonymity@ucla.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >In fact, it's too bad you weren't in the Branch Davidian compound.
> ><rhawk@megabits.net> wrote in message
> >news:3b4591d9.2066699@news.megabits.net...
> >>
> >> All McVeigh did was send a message to Janet Reno to reminde her
> >> of the SLAUGHTER she perpetuated at Waco and the killing ay Ruby
> >> Ridge..  She, is "that piece of shit"...
> >>
> >> Just MY Opinion..
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:07:31 -0700, "An Entity" <anonymity@ucla.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >That piece of shit got what he deserved.  He confessed to the crime,
and
> >the
> >> >revelation of a conspiracy would have had no effect on his fate.  The
FBI
> >> >probably had several hundred thousand documents on McVeigh, of which
3000
> >> >constitutes less than 1%.
> >> >
> >> >99% of the documents and McVeigh's own confession prove that he was a
> >piece
> >> >of shit.  I don't see how 1% of the documents could possibly change
the
> >> >scenario.  And, the judges agreed with me.
> >> >
> >> >" Fabrikant" <hollyric@colba.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:9i1ph9$bi4$1@news.colba.net...
> >> >> It was reported that FBI "forgot" to disclose certain documents on
> >> >McVeigh;
> >> >> some say, 3000 plus documents, some say, 3000 plus pages.  McVeigh's
> >> >lawyer
> >> >> was shown with several boxes of paper.  Each such box contains at
least
> >> >> 10,000 pages, so clearly, we are talking about 3000 documents.  An
FBI
> >> >> representative said that FBI had 1 BILLION documents on McVeigh, so
> >3000
> >> >> documents constitute only 3 in a million, which is an excellent
> >> >performance.
> >> >>
> >> >> Do they really have 1 BILLION documents on McVeigh?  Let us do some
> >> >> arithmetics.  A book of 500 pages is about 4 cm thick, so elementary
> >> >> computations show that I BILLION pages will be 80 km thick!  If you
> >> >presume,
> >> >> that you can read 1 page per second, it will take you 32 years (24
> >hours
> >> >per
> >> >> day, 365 days per year) to read them.  In reality, you need at least
1
> >> >> minute to read a page, so you will have to spend more than 1800
years!
> >> >> These FBI guys take public for dumbheads.
> >> >>
> >> >> Second question: did FBI really forgot to disclose documents?  The
> >media
> >> >> reported that FBI computer system is "antiquated".  I do not buy it
for
> >a
> >> >> second: FBI never had any problem with money, and I am sure they
have
> >> >newest
> >> >> and fastest computers.  There was a show recently about the Security
> >> >> Intelligence Agency, and the Agency representative proudly said that
> >they
> >> >> had more computer power on a square yard than any other place on
earth.
> >> >> There is no reason to believe that FBI would be far behind.  Even
> >> >presuming
> >> >> that FBI computers are slow, it has nothing to do with their ability
to
> >> >> retrieve documents: slow computers just require more time to do the
> >same
> >> >> thing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yellow media reported one FBI analyst saying that she did not want
to
> >> >> introduce her documents into a computer database, because she was
> >afraid
> >> >> that she would not be able later to retrieve them.  I have a
surprise
> >for
> >> >> her: introduction of a document into a computer means making a copy
of
> >the
> >> >> document into a magnetic media, she still has the document on paper,
so
> >> >she
> >> >> has nothing to loose.  On the other hand, if she does NOT introduce
her
> >> >> document into a database, she would certainly not be able to
retrieve
> >it.
> >> >> Did the yellow reporter know this?  Of course!  So, why is he doing
> >this?
> >> >> Because majority of the public do not know computers and can be
duped.
> >> >Were
> >> >> you duped?
> >> >>
> >> >> One should note, that nobody mentions, how many documents WERE
> >disclosed.
> >> >> In my case, there were not even 100 documents disclosed.  Presume,
that
> >in
> >> >> McVeigh case there were 10 times more documents and this will come
to
> >1000
> >> >> documents, which is a lot.  Now, 3000 documents undisclosed is 3
times
> >> >> bigger than what was disclosed.  One can not just "forget" major
part
> >of
> >> >> documents.  It is my understanding that the undisclosed documents
are
> >> >> dealing with existence of John Doe #2.  Several people claim to have
> >seen
> >> >> him.  If FBI admits his existence, this would mean that FBI did not
do
> >its
> >> >> job.  It is much more convenient to claim that the matter is closed
> >> >> successfully.
> >> >>
> >> >> Some people say, that since McVeigh admitted planting of the bomb,
no
> >> >> document could change anything.  History knows quite a number of
false
> >> >> confessions.  McVeigh could have confessed to something he did not
do
> >in
> >> >> order to protect someone, who is dear to him.  Majority of people,
who
> >> >knew
> >> >> him, say that they hate what he has done, but that they still love
him.
> >> >The
> >> >> same thing A.Rooney said about Senator Kerrey: he did not like what
> >Kerrey
> >> >> did, but he liked the man.  There is though one difference: McVeigh
is
> >> >> waiting to be executed, while Kerrey is hailed as American hero.
> >Should
> >> >not
> >> >> Kerrey be sitting in the next cell?
> >> >>
> >> >> So, government knew all alone that 3000 plus documents were not
> >disclosed
> >> >to
> >> >> McVeigh.  Why have they decided to disclose them now?  This is what
my
> >> >> paranoidal mind tells me.  US government does not like the situation
> >where
> >> >> McVeigh effectively spits in their faces, since he decided to get
out
> >> >"with
> >> >> a bang".  They know that McVeigh's execution will make him in the
eyes
> >of
> >> >> many a martyr.  US government wants McVeigh to beg them for his
life,
> >this
> >> >> is why they are throwing at him this bait - new evidence, and his
> >lawyers,
> >> >> paid by government, are trying to convince McVeigh to continue his
> >> >appeals,
> >> >> though they know full well, that nothing will come from these
appeals.
> >> >>
> >> >> The main legal question here is: did McVeigh have a fair trial?  Let
us
> >> >> recount facts.  His lawyer Jones got $10 MILLION - a very good pay
to
> >sell
> >> >> his client, and sell he did.  First, he simulated break-in into his
> >> >> computer, when he revealed to the media the contents of his private
> >> >> conversations with McVeigh.  I do not believe Jones was so dumb to
keep
> >> >> sensitive documents unscrambled.  After all the newspapers in the
> >country
> >> >> published that McVeigh admitted to Jones that he planted the bomb,
> >there
> >> >was
> >> >> no point to go to trial - the guilty verdict was guaranteed.
> >> >>
> >> >> The next question is: did his lawyer do his best on the sentencing
> >stage
> >> >to
> >> >> protect the life of his client?  I quote just one sentence from
Jones'
> >> >> speech: he told the jury that though his client has killed more
> >innocent
> >> >> people than Bundy, Dahlmer and other famous mass murderers combined,
he
> >> >> should not be sentenced to die.  With such a lawyer, who needs a
> >> >prosecutor?
> >> >> He effectively equated his client with people, who killed for
pleasure.
> >> >Is
> >> >> Jones really that stupid?  No, he was very well paid to sell his
> >client,
> >> >and
> >> >> he did.  McVeigh has finally understood Jones' treachery and fired
him,
> >> >but
> >> >> it was too late.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now, what would an honest lawyer do in McVeigh case?  He should have
> >> >called
> >> >> to testify Kelly (butcher of Vietnamese village My Lai), Senator
Kerrey
> >> >and
> >> >> other well known war criminals, and asked them to describe in
detail,
> >how
> >> >> they cut throats, raped, mutilated innocent unarmed civilians, and
how
> >> >they
> >> >> got away with their crimes.  The jury saw the pictures of victims of
> >> >> Oklahoma bombing, an honest lawyer should show them pictures of
people
> >> >> killed at My Lai, pictures of people burnt alive at Waco, picture of
> >the
> >> >> wife and little child of Randy Weaver, killed by government with
> >impunity
> >> >> (nobody was prosecuted for these murders).
> >> >>
> >> >> In his argument, an honest lawyer should ask the jury whether there
is
> >> >much
> >> >> difference between what Senator Kerrey did, and what his client did,
> >and
> >> >if
> >> >> there is not much difference, then he should ask the jury, why
should
> >his
> >> >> client be treated differently from the way Senator Kerrey is being
> >> >treated.
> >> >>
> >> >> The logic of McVeigh's defense should have been as follows.  He was
> >> >pursued
> >> >> by US government for multiple premeditated murders, and the honest
> >lawyer
> >> >> should have shown to the jury that US government itself is guilty of
> >> >> multiple premeditated murders of its own citizens, as well as
citizens
> >of
> >> >> other countries, so it has no right to pursue anyone, including his
> >> >client,
> >> >> for murder.  This would be a bomb!
> >> >>
> >> >> McVeigh was a bonanza to some architectural firms: they are now
making
> >a
> >> >lot
> >> >> of money designing buildings for US government, which are capable to
> >> >> withstand explosions.  Nobody is telling US government, that there
is a
> >> >much
> >> >> cheaper way to make its buildings safe: to stop its criminal
behavior,
> >and
> >> >> nobody would want to blow up US government buildings in the first
> >place.
> >> >>
> >> >> I wish to make it clear: I do NOT condone McVeigh in any shape or
form,
> >I
> >> >> would not be able to live with myself, had I harmed even one
innocent
> >> >> person.  All I am saying is: justice should be not just for McVeigh,
> >but
> >> >for
> >> >> all.  If McVeigh is waiting execution, Senator Kerrey, Janet Reno
and
> >many
> >> >> other murderers should be his neighbors.  By the way, had Janet Reno
> >and
> >> >> others been prosecuted in due time, there would be no bombing in
> >Oklahoma.
> >> >> ---
> >> >>
> >> >> It is regretful that I was right in my previous posting: I suggested
> >there
> >> >> that all this story of FBI forgetting to forward certain documents
was
> >> >> nothing but a spectacle.  Government was very upset that McVeigh
> >decided
> >> >to
> >> >> go on his terms and with a bang.  They were desperate to make him
ask
> >to
> >> >> spare his life and to deny him his request.  Regretfully, he fell
for
> >it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Let us get to the detail.  At the first news that FBI did not
forward
> >> >> certain documents, US Attorney General cancelled execution, and send
> >> >> treacherous lawyers to convince McVeigh to file a motion for a stay
of
> >> >> execution.  It is obvious that McVeigh resisted for quite a while.
So,
> >> >> government introduced a heavy artillery - media.  They presented to
the
> >> >show
> >> >> "60 Minutes" several recently fired FBI agents, who were telling
that
> >FBI
> >> >> deliberately withheld documents, and one of agents even mentioned
that
> >he
> >> >> personally has produced several exculpatory documents, which were
never
> >> >> presented to the court.  When this agent was asked about contents of
> >this
> >> >> document he said that he could not answer because of a gag order.
> >Excuse
> >> >> me, what kind of a gag order could exist for a man fired from FBI?
> >> >> Obviously, it was a spectacle designed for McVeigh personal
> >consumption,
> >> >and
> >> >> he fell for it: two days after the show, it was reported that he
> >decided
> >> >to
> >> >> file the motion for a stay of execution.  US government got what it
> >> >wanted.
> >> >>
> >> >> The next step was to arrange with the lawyers such a motion that
could
> >be
> >> >> denied.  The situation was such that a proper motion could not
possibly
> >be
> >> >> denied.  Indeed, it was Attorney General, who decided to order delay
to
> >> >give
> >> >> lawyers time to study the documents.  Clearly, one month time is an
> >> >> arbitrary quantity, and should the lawyers filed an Habeas Corpus
> >motion,
> >> >> arguing only that one month time was arbitrary and not sufficient,
> >> >Attorney
> >> >> General could say nothing, because it was his initiative, and there
was
> >no
> >> >> way anyone can prove that one month is enough to study 4000
documents.
> >> >>
> >> >> Instead of doing what I described above, treacherous lawyers
presented
> >a
> >> >> motion not based on Habeas Corpus, but on a civil statute, claiming
> >that
> >> >> government has perpetrated a fraud upon the court.  When you make
such
> >a
> >> >> statement, you should be prepared to prove it, which lawyers did not
> >> >bother
> >> >> to do.  In view of this kind of motion, it was easy for the judge to
> >say
> >> >> that there was no evidence of fraud presented, and therefore the
motion
> >> >was
> >> >> denied.  In exactly the same way, as his first lawyer Jones betrayed
> >him
> >> >> during his trial, his new lawyers betrayed him with this motion.
> >> >>
> >> >> Had the lawyers really wanted to claim the fraud, they should have
> >called
> >> >to
> >> >> testify each and every FBI agent, who handled these 4000 documents
and
> >> >> examine them under oath as to how it happened that the documents
were
> >not
> >> >> forwarded to the defence during the trial.  They should have also
> >called
> >> >> these fired FBI agents, who participated in "60 Minutes".  A good
> >lawyer
> >> >> would have no difficulty to prove that it was a fraud indeed, but
these
> >> >> lawyers were very well paid by the government and they did what
> >government
> >> >> asked them to do: betrayed their client.
> >> >>
> >> >> McVeigh finally understood that he has been had.  Too bad.
> >> >>
> >> >> Fabrikant
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>