🚀 go-pugleaf

Sorry, but I don't have the time to quote whole portions of the book
again. Let me comment as best I can without doing that.

meanwhile, next time you're in a bookstore, if they have it -- pick up
Unfit for Command (don't buy it, just pick it up and read some of it)
so you can get up to speed on this. You are woefully behind. . . . .

Mike Smith wrote:
> On 28 Aug 2005 07:47:56 -0700, "Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Mike Smith wrote:
> >> On 27 Aug 2005 15:26:52 -0700, "Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Mike Smith wrote:
> >> >> On 23 Aug 2005 17:53:46 -0700, "Doug Reese" <dreese@erols.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >tom spillman wrote:
> >> >> >> rms1@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> >> >> >>JT, Jeffrey is forever going to believe his delusional impression of
> >> >> >> >>the swift boat vets.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > No, you see, it goes like this: Jeffrey, as a thinking person, is never
> >> >> >> > going to believe YOUR delusional impression of the swiftboat vets, who
> >> >> >> > lied about Kerry.  Thought you should know.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I agree that they may have gone a bit overboard in their dislike for the
> >> >> >> self-aggrandizing Kerry.  However, NO ONE can doubt that his testimony
> >> >> >> before Congress was anything but treasonable.  I remember seeing it at
> >> >> >> the time. As I understand it, few if any of the Swift Boat vets were on
> >> >> >> his boat, but they always operated in close proximity of each other,
> >> >> >> i.e., close enough to see what was going on in his boat.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Pretty much correct Tom. When the Swifts went out, it was typically
> >> >> >3-4-5 boats. For the incident where Kerry received the Bronze Star, for
> >> >> >example, there were five Swift Boats.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And out of the 30 Swiftees and two Special Forces guys there that day,
> >> >> >there were just four who disputed Kerry's version of what happened. 35
> >> >> >years later, 4 out of 32 said it happened differently from what Kerry
> >> >> >said happened.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Doug Reese
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> And what did the other 28 say? Is their silence deafening? Or did the
> >> >> other 28 actually comment on his actions over the last several years?
> >> >
> >> >Some have commented -- Kerry's crew, of course, and Jim Rassmann, the
> >> >guy Kerry pulled out of the river.
> >> >
> >> >Then there were several people on other boats who backed-up Kerry's
> >> >story, including another officer.
> >> >
> >> >The private investigator tried to find other people who would dispute
> >> >what Kerry said, but those four (Thurlow, Chenowith, Pease and Van
> >> >O'Dell) were it.
> >> >
> >> >Many have chosen to stay silent.
> >>
> >> I believe those 4, based on Kerry's history. They seem normal; Kerry
> >> seems extremely self-centered and snobbish, and he is a known/proven
> >> liar.
> >
> >Then you are saying that the other, lets' say 10-11 guys are liars. Is
> >that correct?
>
> 10-11? I thought it was your 4 against their 4....

No, I never said that. I said the SBV't" had four out of about 32 who
disputed Kerry's version as to what happened.

> >> >> {liberals are notorious for omitting facts that refute their rants}
> >> >
> >> >Actually, that award in this case goes to the Swift Boat Veterans for
> >> >"truth". The facts that they have omitted in Unfit for Command are so
> >> >numerous it would take another book to list them all.
> >>
> >> Such as? {yes, you should have at least posted one or two examples,
> >> instead of what you did post}
> >
> >OK, you are such a fan that you don't have the book (I say this from
> >your comment below, asking where they dispute his SS), which in itself
> >is interesting. I have the book, and you don't. Hmmm . . . .
>
> I have their webpage and did not see any dispute about the Silver
> Star.

I have their book. It damn sure disputes it. And they did so on all
those talk shows I referred to.

> >anyway, let me quote a passage:
> >
> >This is on page 82, should you ever get a copy of the book and read
> >some of it, about 2/3 of the page . . . . .
> >
> >1. They say that "According to Doug Reese, a pro-Kerry Army veteran,
> >and many others, what happened that day differs from the retelling in
> >the citation."
>
> So they were stating the obvious? How does that "dispute" the SS?

I, and everyone there that day have said that what happened was what
was in the citation that Kerry was given when he was awarded the medal,
in early March 1969.

No one, ESPECIALLY ME, says it is different from what is in the
citation.
> >
> >What they omit is the fact that they are quoting from a citation
> >written YEARS later. It has some wording that is found nowhere, in any
> >other paperwork, which was apparently inserted by an awards clerk when
> >he/she was re-doing the citation, and making it shorter.
>
> Why did that happen? Was it an attempt to "clean up" the record? Save
> paperwork? Eliminate a few random electrons?

Sure, Kerry has the ability to have the Department of the Navy "Clean
up" his citation. There was nothing to "clean-up".

> Why would the citation be re-written?

I believe it was because he had lost the original.

> >
> >The citation they curiously ignore, written at the time of the
> >incident, is accurate in every detail. As is the after-action report.
> >Both of which agree with what EVERYONE THERE has said happened.
>
> Including the 4 SBV's?

You are mixing up two different incidents/medals.

Silver Star -- Feb 28, 1969. No one out of about 26 people disputes
what happened.

Bronze Star/3rd Purple Heart -- March 13, 1969. This is when Kerry
pulled the Special Forces guy out of the water. Four guys out of about
32 dispute what Kerry said happened.

> >2. Here's another deception on their part. Pretty tricky, too, the way
> >they word it.
> >
> >After talking about what happened where I and the other advisors were,
> >they say "None of the participants from Reese's boat received any
> >Silver Stars. Indeed, most, if not all, of the non-PCF troops received
> >no medals for this action. Doug Reese, who advised the South Vietnamese
> >who were the first group ashore and who killed most of the Viet Cong
> >received a well-deserved Army Commendation Medal -- a much lower medal
> >than the Silver Star."
>
> The sentence "Indeed, most, if not all, of the non-PCF troops received
> no medals for this action." is poorly structured. Are you "sure" that
> is the way it is worded?

It was a direct and complete quote.

> Did anyone else, besides Kerry, receive a Silver Star?

No.

> >
> >The deception is multi-layered, but I'll just mention part of it.
> >
> >When they say "non-PCF troops", just who are they talking about? The
> >Vietnamese? Maybe, but who knows about their awards? So they must be
> >talking about the three advisors, right? That's all I can think of. And
> >guess what, ALL of the advisors received medals. Mine, in fact, was the
> >lowest. The other two guys received Bronze Stars.
>
> Did you ask any of themn what they meant by "non-PCF troops"?
> Why not?

Do you think I am in communication with these people? Hardly. By
non-PCF troops they mean anyone who wasn't a Swift Boat person. That
would be us advisors and the Vietnamese. Oh, and there were also three
UDT guys there that day. I forgot to mention them.

> >Technically speaking, they didn't lie, as the Vietnamese fall in the
> >category of "non-PCF troops".
> >
> >Oh, one more thing . . . . no mention is made of any PCF troops
> >receiving, or not receiving, and awards -- other than to say none of
> >those on my boat received any Silver Stars. However, what they manage
> >to omit is that EVERY PCF GUY received an award for that incident --
> >something like 19 guys, total.
> >
> >3. They manage to omit the fact that no one present that day, out of
> >all thsoe people, disputes Kerry receiving the Silver Star. And that
> >includes the one (and only) member of the Swift Boat Veterans for
> >"truth". That guy didn't support Kerry for the presidency, but he does
> >support him receiving the SS.
>
> So what part of the SS story did the SBV's dispute? I ddiin't see you
> post anything significant, like "Kerry did not deserve the SS"...

Read that portion of the book. It's entire purpose is to say he didn't
deserve it.

> >4. Hmm, what else . . so many to choose from . . OK, how about this. I
> >am NOT quoted in the book. Why is this? well, because if they quoted
> >me, there would be one of those little numbers by my name. And with
> >that number you could go to the back of the book and see the reference
> >for that quote.
> >
> >They wanted to OMIT the source of my quotes, so they didn't quote me.
> >They did twist what I said. They did OMIT some of what I said. Mainly,
> >they wanted to use my name.
> >
> >But, if they did quote me, and you went to the back of the book to see
> >where that quote came from, you'd read something like this: Doug Reese
> >as told to Tom Rupprath, private investigator hired by SBV'T", in a
> >June 2004 interview.
>
> Is that what happened? Were you quoted from a June 2004 interview?

Yes, there was a June 2004 interview. No, I was NOT quoted in the book.

Why is that? Probably because they didn't want that to be in the book
-- that they hired a PI to try to dig dirt on Kerry. Furthermore, if
the quoted me, that would reduce their ability to do what they did --
make it appear as if I said things that I in fact never said.

They also OMITTED some very important things that I told them about
what I did. For them to have mentioned that would have screwed up the
(false) impression they were trying to give.

> >
> >> >
> >> >Example -- for the Silver Star incident, none out of about 25-26
> >> >present have disputed what Kerry said.
> >> >
> >> >Doug Reese
> >>
> >> OK, where did the Swift Boat Vets dispute his silver star?
> >
> >You have GOT to be kidding!
> >
> >> {This is what I mean about intentionally deceptive liberals}
> >
> >You seem like an intelligent person. So why do you keep tossing out
> >that "intentionally deceptive liberals" bit? Especially when, in this
> >case, the SBV"t" have devoted SEVEN PAGES IN THEIR BOOK to disputing
> >Kerry's Silver Star.
>
> But I thought you would have posted the pertinent parts that actually
> dispute Kerry's SS. Are you going to post that part?

I said they omitted important facts. You then asked for one or two
examples. I gave you four.

If you want more, you'll have to go to a bookstore. Come to think of
it, parts of it -- significant parts of it -- are online somewhere.

> >
> >(Either YOU are being intentionally deceptive, or, well, you haven't
> >researched this subject very well.)
> >
> >And then there's the early August drudge report which was devoted to
> >the book, and disputing the Silver Star. It is all over the internet.
>
> What I remember is an intense dispute over the Bronze star and Kerry's
> 1st purple heart.

In which case your memory is partially correct.

> >
> >And the there's God-knows-how-many talk shows John O'Neill was on,
> >disputing the Silver Star and all-things-Kerry.
> >
> >> Here's a link for you to scan. It has their topics of discussion about
> >> Kerry.:
> >> http://horse.he.net/~swiftpow/index.php?topic=Latest
> >
> >Thanks. I took part in their discussion forum from May 2004 up until a
> >few months ago. I am very much aware of what they talk about.
> >
> >Doug
>
> Where, in their website, do they dispute Kerry's SS?

I have no idea. It's all over their discussion forum. And, as I said,
it's in their "best selling" book.

Doug Reese
 
> Mike Smith