🚀 go-pugleaf

Chris wrote:
> <wrcowan1@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
> news:4323ad07$0$10624$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org...
> 
>>
>>Chris wrote:
>>
>>><wrcowan1@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
>>>news:43226972$0$10624$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Obwon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>As the National Guard delivered food to the New Orleans
>>>>>convention center yesterday, American Red Cross
>>>>>officials said that federal emergency management
>>>>>authorities would not allow them to do the same.
>>>>
>>>>The National Guard was the one controling the roads and not FEMA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Other relief agencies say the area is so damaged and
>>>>>dangerous that they doubted they could conduct mass
>>>>>feeding there now.
>>>>
>>>>Could this be the reason why people who came down to help were not
>>>>allowed to do so?  Off course it is the reason.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"The Homeland Security Department has requested and
>>>>>continues to request that the American Red Cross not
>>>>>come back into New Orleans," said Renita Hosler,
>>>>>spokeswoman for the Red Cross.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Right now access is controlled by the National Guard
>>>>>and local authorities. We have been at the table every
>>>>>single day [asking for access]. We cannot get into New
>>>>>Orleans against their orders."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There it is the National Guard, controlled by the Govenor and not the
>>>>Federal Government, controlled access to the city.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Though frustrated, Hosler understood the reasons. The
>>>>>goal is to move people out of an uninhabitable city,
>>>>>and relief operations might keep them there. Security
>>>>>is so bad that she fears feeding stations might get
>>>>>ransacked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hmmm, another good reason to keep the masss of volunteers out.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah that's a good reason....why not send in troops with the food
> 
> stations
> 
>>>and help the people who were not causing trouble....you know, that 90%
> 
> who
> 
>>>just wanted to live....nice plan there georgie...
>>>
>>
>>As the Govenor of Louisian that question.  She is the one who is
>>responsible for the National Guard.
> 
> 
> Not after bushco declared it a national disaster...go read that FEMA
> document again would you....
> 

Been there and done that.  FEMA does not control the military.  It is 
tasked with managing and organizing all federal relief assests.  It has 
no military control.  Even if declared a nation disaster.  There is not 
statutory authority for FEMA to assume military control or allow FEMA to 
trump State and Local officials.  Look it up.  You will not find it in 
the NRP baseplan or in the Stafford act.


> 
> 
>  Ask her why she did not call up
> 
>>enough troops before hand?  Ask her why she delayed in sending them in
>>and why she delayed asking for more trrops?  Ask her why she refused to
>>allow the Federal Government to step in and provide trrops early in the
>>disaster?
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the federal troops that you say couldn't get there? Now that is a
> logical statement....not.
> 

Hmmm lets see she only called up 2,000 troops to go in.  If she had cede 
the National Guard to the President he could have had the 60,000 that 
are there now when the 2.000 orginally arrived.  Further more, more 
troops could have been sent earlier from the USS Battan.  But they could 
not go in since it was a state run operation.

> 
>>>>
>>>>>Obstacles in downtown New Orleans have stymied rescuers
>>>>>who got there. The Salvation Army has two of its
>>>>>officers trapped with more than 200 people -- three
>>>>>requiring dialysis -- in its own downtown building.
>>>>>They were alerted by a 30-second plea for food and
>>>>>water before the phone went dead.
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wednesday, The Salvation Army rented three boats for
>>>>>a rescue operation. They knew the situation was
>>>>>desperate, and that their own people were inside, said
>>>>>Maj. Donna Hood, associate director of development for
>>>>>the Army.
>>>>>
>>>>>"The boats couldn't get through," she said. Although
>>>>>she doesn't know the details, she believes huge debris
>>>>>and electrical wires made passage impossible.
>>>>
>>>>If boasts had trouble getting in the nvehicular traffic would have the
>>>>same trouble.
>>>
>>>
>>>Ummm...no...there were many roads that were not under water.....and tehy
>>>could have made it to the damn superdome before it became
> 
> thunderdome....
> 
>>But did those roads lead to every spot that had people that needed help?
> 
> 
> So if you can't help everybody, then don't help anybody?? Sound like the
> kind of logic that will get you far in this administration...
> 

NO, I did not say that.  I am telling you that even if help gets to one 
spot it could not get to all.  Supplies could not get into the city 
until safe passage could be found.

> 
> 
>>  No they did not.  The area around the superdome was under water.  To
>>get vehicular traffic there takes time.  YOu first have to find a safe
>>route that is not totally flooded out that can be used by all the
>>personnel that you need not just those who can get through.  Thereal
>>question is why was the superdome used when the emergency plan called
>>for the school buses to be used to transport people out?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the local government had collapsed and they couldn't stage a news
> conference much les an evacuation by that time.
> 

Ah, thats right. Local government collapsed and time was short.  The 
question is why did they wait so long to act.  They had emergency 
prepartion plans that called for evacuation.  When warned that they had 
a cat 4 heading towards them they had plenty of time to evacuate and use 
those buses.  She knew a whole day and a half before she finally gave 
the order that trouble was coming.

> 
>>
>>>>
>>>>>Because New Orleans remains under water, it is
>>>>>different from other cities where Katrina struck
>>>>>harder, but where relief efforts are proceeding
>>>>>normally. Agencies place workers and supplies outside
>>>>>disaster areas before storms, to move in quickly. But
>>>>>there are always delays, Burton said, because nothing
>>>>>is deployed until experts survey the damage and decide
>>>>>where to most effectively put relief services.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Again another reason why it took time to get any amount of supplies in
>>>>and people out.
>>>
>>>
>>>Meanwhile just let the people die until we do a "study" of what's
>>>needed....here's a free clue FOOD AND WATER!!
>>>
>>
>>Another clueless statement.  YOu have to assess what supplies you have.
>>  Then you have to assess what means do you have to get them there.
>>Next you assess the personel available.  Then you identifiy and
>>prioritize those in need.  This does take time.  Sure you could go out
>>and make drops of food and water but you have to make sure that not all
>>your drops are in one place and another place is totally ignored.  It
>>take time and coordination.  But as you well know the National Guard, at
>>the orders of the Govenor prevented relief supplies from being delieverd.
> 
> 
> 
> So you spend four days "assessing" while people are dying rather than just
> getting any kind of help in there that you can to reduce some of the
> suffering. Typical...forget the people...we want to make sure we have a
> pretty plan....
> 
> 

Fours days was not spent planning.  The delays were caused by state 
officials.  Some aid was coming through in small quanitites on Tuesday 
and began in a larger quanity on Wednesday and Thursday

>>
>>>>
>>>>>After Katrina, he thought he would have to airlift a
>>>>>feeding unit to one isolated town, but a road was
>>>>>cleared, he said. He doubts that dropping a kitchen
>>>>>into the New Orleans' poisoned waters, filled with raw
>>>>>sewage, dead bodies and possible industrial
>>>>>contaminants, would do any good. It made sense to
>>>>>prepare meals outside the area and truck them in or
>>>>>bring people out.
>>>>
>>>>Logistics is a taks that so many do not understand.  If you are having
>>>>trouble feeding those who are in the city already, think about the
>>>>problems that would be encountered if you let every group that wanted to
>>>>help in?  They would have problems with getting food, water, sanitation
>>>>and someplace to sleeep.
>>>
>>>
>>>Or they would have there own food...since that was what they were
>>>bringing...they could have shit in the street like everyone else....and
> 
> I
> 
>>>seriously doubt anyone would have been sleeping in the first 48 hours...
>>>
>>
>>To have just one person crap in the street is not per se a problem but
>>when you have hundreds of people (more people than were originally
>>there) doing it then you have a health problem that is compounding the
>>existing problem.  Even in the first 48 hrs there will be people
>>sleeping that is just good management of resources and the reason you
>>have extra personell.  You neglected to say where they were to have
>>staged? How would you communicate with them?  YOu know those pesky
>>question that need to be answered.
>>
>>MRC
> 
> 
> 
> People were already crapping in the street.....a few thousand more would not
> have made much of a difference....or they might even have had a few porta
> potties to go with the relief workers....nah, they wouldn't have thought of
> that would they.

Yeah it would.  Clearly you do not know what you are talking about.  IF 
you did that then you are definately asking for major outbraks of 
disease.  To get the porta potties in you have to have a way to do so 
and a way to maintain them.


> As for communications.....how the hell do you think they communicate in Iraq
> when they are in battle....sattelite phones perhaps...or maybe they have
> their own communications setups that travel with them....geez are you being
> purposefully obtuse or do you just not know anything?


You are comparing Applesand Oranges.  Remeber the gear the military is 
way beter than the state and local officials have.  Secondly the troops 
train with theirs more often and know how to make on hte spot repairs 
whereas the state and local officials are generally clueless on how they 
operate.

You apparently do not understand how the real world operates.  Things do 
not happen as well as you htink they should.  You forget that military 
operates the same way as state and local officials thereforethey shuld 
be able to communicate.  Do you even have a clue how many times a day 
communications go out with police departmetns across this nation?

MRC