🚀 go-pugleaf

--------------E17D2EAB09E2DAEE7E8DE775
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Geoff wrote:

Hello Geoff,

> I love a good debate and an informed discussion so I've been following this thread with interest.  Most of the correspondence I've seen
> (and had) has been intelligent and well-informed, but since Charlie Lear's posting neatly encapsulates most of the "blinkered, philistine
> pig-ignorance*" of the silliest ones, I'll take it point by point:
>                         (*'The Architect's Sketch', Monty Python.)

You should be enjoying this one.
You have really opened a can of worms this time.

PC World is a good magazine and it helps computer users in many ways, its
good to have magazines like this available to the public.


> >Proof positive that NZPCW will publish utter bilge from total losers,
> >as long as it puts a positive spin on Microsoft.
>
> I couldn't care less what you think of me, but you obviously haven't read my August and September Consumer Watch columns, or my
> reply to Microsoft's letter in the September issue.  And you definetely don't want to read Consumer Watch or the letters column in the
> forthcoming November issue because your infantile beliefs might take a further knock.

Many people have the same opinion about PC World being a magazine devoted only
to Microsoft products. I have read in past issues (letters) people stating exactly that.
I have to stand by what I originally said, a Visual basic programmer should not make comments about a product he/she does not know anything about.
You are not a Delphi programmer, it appears you do not want to be a Delphi programmer, thats fine, but why run-down a product you don't even want to
try to use, or know anything about.
Borland's Delphi is a great product, and you have upset many people by your abrasive comments.
A good writer/editor etc., never writes about something they know nothing about, its an old law and a good one, its bad for the magazine.

> >Getting bitten by unpacking IOCCC code on a Windows box and then
> >having the CRLF stuff things on Linux?  And then admit it in
> >print????  Give me strength.
>
> Smug, supercilious bastards like this are the bane of the industry.  EVERYBODY makes mistakes but it takes  guts to stand up and
> admit them.

Geez, I hope your "Consumer Watch & Code Cutter columnist" is never written with you using this type of language.

>  These guys never do - but they always have the most creative excuses.  What's more, they never admit that there are all
> sorts of experience levels within the industry.  Some of the best, most experienced programmers I know have never stepped off a
> mainframe.  But of course, they would rate a derisive sneer from Lear for not knowing about the CR/LF differences between Dos and
> Unix systems.
>
> BTW It says "PC World" on the cover in  letters at least 45mm high.  Not "Unix World" or "Linux Systems Journal".  Most of the stuff
> inside is about PCs using Windows operating systems.  (Or did you miss all that and just buy the mag for my column, Charlie?  I'm
> flattered!)  Since, for most of our readers, Linux is an interest, not a mainstay, publishing little tips like CR/LF differences helps them out.
>  But that, of course, is a bad thing to people like Lear because it threatens to erode their tiny little empires of technical expertise.  Too
> many tips like that and less experienced people around them start to see that these self-appointed technical emperors really do have no
> clothes on.

> >Of course, rather than attacking the author who clearly didn't have a
> >remote clue about what the hell he was supposed to achieve...
>
> And what's that Charlie?  No, please tell me since you've obviously been appointed editor.  Or do you just have in mind some mindless
> chanting like the sheep in Orwell's 'Animal Farm':  "Borland good, Microsoft B-A-D!  Borland good, Microsoft B-A-D!  ..."

There is no need to get nasty Geoff, it makes a man look weak, and it doesn't make PCWorld look any better you acting like this in a public
newsgroup.
Please stick to the facts.
I think it would be nice to see PC-World hire a Delphi programmer for any
reviews about Delphi products, then this person can give a reasonable review/comments.
You could then stick to your Visual Basic/C reviews/comments and keep
your part of the programming world happy.

> >...we should probably send a broadside at the editor...
>
> Please, by all means, do.  (See the above comment about 'informed discussion').  But you'd have to put together a cogent and
> reasoned argument, not just a half-baked ad hominem attack.

I would like to see fellow Delphi programmers write to your Editor
and ask them to please add a Delphi programmer to your staff
to make Delphi related comments and reviews.

> >...for not finding someone who
> >actually used Delphi to do the review and if he couldn't find one
> >(as is apparent here) then at least give firm editorial direction so
> >that we didn't get a column of stream-of-unconsciousness page filler
> >instead of a review.
>
> Review?  Did it say 'review' in the column?  Code Cutter is NOT a reviews column.  (Surely, as self-appointed editor, you'd know that
> Charlie?  I'll whisper this quietly so no one else hears: reviews are done in the New & Improved section.  See, I really don't mind sharing
> my knowledge...)  And didn't I even state that I wasn't qualified to 'review' the product IN THE COLMUN?  (Like the "PC" on the cover
> you obviously missed that too.  Better get those glasses changed.)

It read like a review in my opinion, any attack (my word, not yours) like yours is bound to have a bad effect on Delphi sales in New Zealand, and to
upset the NZ Delphi programmers.
Your article: http://www.pcworld.co.nz/magazine/pcworld/oct99/code.htm

> And to all of Charlie's fellow myopics who latched on to my recommendation of VB over Pascal, sorry but I still stand by that.  Both
> originated - as I mentioned in the column - as teaching languages.  Forget technical merit and OO concerns; clearly only one is winning.

But have a look at these compiler ratings:
http://www.deja.com/rate/list_items.xp?CID=11954&PCID=11803

>  (Just look at the job vacancy ads to get an idea of which one that might be.)  If my comments help spur Borland to pull finger and
> tackle VB head on at what it does best - luring new users in with its initial simplicity - then we might have some real competition.

Delphi has been, from what I have seen, competition for Microsoft for years, why else
would Microsoft buy-out the Developers of Delphi whenever they can.

> Geoff Palmer
> Consumer Watch & Code Cutter columnist
> NZ PC World

--
All the best from James Sandbrook.
****************************************************

--------------E17D2EAB09E2DAEE7E8DE775
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Geoff wrote:
<p>Hello Geoff,
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>I love a good debate and an informed discussion so
I've been following this thread with interest.&nbsp; Most of the correspondence
I've seen
<br>(and had) has been intelligent and well-informed, but since Charlie
Lear's posting neatly encapsulates most of the "blinkered, philistine
<br>pig-ignorance*" of the silliest ones, I'll take it point by point:
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
(*'The Architect's Sketch', Monty Python.)</blockquote>
You should be enjoying this one.
<br>You have really opened a can of worms this time.
<p>PC World is a good magazine and it helps computer users in many ways,
its
<br>good to have magazines like this available to the public.
<br>&nbsp;
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>>Proof positive that NZPCW will publish utter bilge
from total losers,
<br>>as long as it puts a positive spin on Microsoft.
<p>I couldn't care less what you think of me, but you obviously haven't
read my August and September Consumer Watch columns, or my
<br>reply to Microsoft's letter in the September issue.&nbsp; And you definetely
don't want to read Consumer Watch or the letters column in the
<br>forthcoming November issue because your infantile beliefs might take
a further knock.</blockquote>
Many people have the same opinion about PC World being a magazine devoted
only
<br>to Microsoft products. I have read in past issues (letters) people
stating exactly that.
<br>I have to stand by what I originally said, a Visual basic programmer
should not make comments about a product he/she does not know anything
about.
<br>You are not a Delphi programmer, it appears you do not want to be a
Delphi programmer, thats fine, but why run-down a product you don't even
want to try to use, or know anything about.
<br>Borland's Delphi is a great product, and you have upset many people
by your abrasive comments.
<br>A good writer/editor etc., never writes about something they know nothing
about, its an old law and a good one, its bad for the magazine.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>>Getting bitten by unpacking IOCCC code on a Windows
box and then
<br>>having the CRLF stuff things on Linux?&nbsp; And then admit it in
<br>>print????&nbsp; Give me strength.
<p>Smug, supercilious bastards like this are the bane of the industry.&nbsp;
EVERYBODY makes mistakes but it takes&nbsp; guts to stand up and
<br>admit them.</blockquote>
Geez, I hope your "Consumer Watch &amp; Code Cutter columnist" is never
written with you using this type of language.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;These guys never do - but they always have
the most creative excuses.&nbsp; What's more, they never admit that there
are all
<br>sorts of experience levels within the industry.&nbsp; Some of the best,
most experienced programmers I know have never stepped off a
<br>mainframe.&nbsp; But of course, they would rate a derisive sneer from
Lear for not knowing about the CR/LF differences between Dos and
<br>Unix systems.
<p>BTW It says "PC World" on the cover in&nbsp; letters at least 45mm high.&nbsp;
Not "Unix World" or "Linux Systems Journal".&nbsp; Most of the stuff
<br>inside is about PCs using Windows operating systems.&nbsp; (Or did
you miss all that and just buy the mag for my column, Charlie?&nbsp; I'm
<br>flattered!)&nbsp; Since, for most of our readers, Linux is an interest,
not a mainstay, publishing little tips like CR/LF differences helps them
out.
<br>&nbsp;But that, of course, is a bad thing to people like Lear because
it threatens to erode their tiny little empires of technical expertise.&nbsp;
Too
<br>many tips like that and less experienced people around them start to
see that these self-appointed technical emperors really do have no
<br>clothes on.</blockquote>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>>Of course, rather than attacking the author who
clearly didn't have a
<br>>remote clue about what the hell he was supposed to achieve...
<p>And what's that Charlie?&nbsp; No, please tell me since you've obviously
been appointed editor.&nbsp; Or do you just have in mind some mindless
<br>chanting like the sheep in Orwell's 'Animal Farm':&nbsp; "Borland good,
Microsoft B-A-D!&nbsp; Borland good, Microsoft B-A-D!&nbsp; ..."</blockquote>
There is no need to get nasty Geoff, it makes a man look weak, and it doesn't
make PCWorld look any better you acting like this in a public newsgroup.
<br>Please stick to the facts.
<br>I think it would be nice to see PC-World hire a Delphi programmer for
any
<br>reviews about Delphi products, then this person can give a reasonable
review/comments.
<br>You could then stick to your Visual Basic/C reviews/comments and keep
<br>your part of the programming world happy.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>>...we should probably send a broadside at the editor...
<p>Please, by all means, do.&nbsp; (See the above comment about 'informed
discussion').&nbsp; But you'd have to put together a cogent and
<br>reasoned argument, not just a half-baked ad hominem attack.</blockquote>
I would like to see fellow Delphi programmers write to your Editor
<br>and ask them to please add a Delphi programmer to your staff
<br>to make Delphi related comments and reviews.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>>...for not finding someone who
<br>>actually used Delphi to do the review and if he couldn't find one
<br>>(as is apparent here) then at least give firm editorial direction
so
<br>>that we didn't get a column of stream-of-unconsciousness page filler
<br>>instead of a review.
<p>Review?&nbsp; Did it say 'review' in the column?&nbsp; Code Cutter is
NOT a reviews column.&nbsp; (Surely, as self-appointed editor, you'd know
that
<br>Charlie?&nbsp; I'll whisper this quietly so no one else hears: reviews
are done in the New &amp; Improved section.&nbsp; See, I really don't mind
sharing
<br>my knowledge...)&nbsp; And didn't I even state that I wasn't qualified
to 'review' the product IN THE COLMUN?&nbsp; (Like the "PC" on the cover
<br>you obviously missed that too.&nbsp; Better get those glasses changed.)</blockquote>
It read like a review in my opinion, any attack (my word, not yours) like
yours is bound to have a bad effect on Delphi sales in New Zealand, and
to upset the NZ Delphi programmers.
<br>Your article: <A HREF="http://www.pcworld.co.nz/magazine/pcworld/oct99/code.htm">http://www.pcworld.co.nz/magazine/pcworld/oct99/code.htm</A>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>And to all of Charlie's fellow myopics who latched
on to my recommendation of VB over Pascal, sorry but I still stand by that.&nbsp;
Both
<br>originated - as I mentioned in the column - as teaching languages.&nbsp;
Forget technical merit and OO concerns; clearly only one is winning.</blockquote>
But have a look at these compiler ratings:
<br><a href="http://www.deja.com/rate/list_items.xp?CID=11954&PCID=11803">http://www.deja.com/rate/list_items.xp?CID=11954&amp;PCID=11803</a>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;(Just look at the job vacancy ads to get an
idea of which one that might be.)&nbsp; If my comments help spur Borland
to pull finger and
<br>tackle VB head on at what it does best - luring new users in with its
initial simplicity - then we might have some real competition.</blockquote>
Delphi has been, from what I have seen, competition for Microsoft for years,
why else
<br>would Microsoft buy-out the Developers of Delphi whenever they can.
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Geoff Palmer
<br>Consumer Watch &amp; Code Cutter columnist
<br>NZ PC World</blockquote>
--
<br>All the best from James Sandbrook.
<br>****************************************************</html>

--------------E17D2EAB09E2DAEE7E8DE775--