🚀 go-pugleaf

Frank R Chloupek (fchloupe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: >
: >I do not want violent criminals out on the streets.  Those who favor
: >drug legalization do not want to remove laws on violent crimes.  We just
: >want to have a principled approach to what is lawful and what is
: >illegal.  If you initiate force against another person, or use fraud, it
: >should be against the law.  The government should be held to these same
: >principles and therefore should not be allowed to initiate force against
: >peaceful individuals using an illegal intoxicant in a manner that harms
: >no one else.  If you abandon the principle of initiation of force to
: >make laws then everything can be made illegal just because 51% think it
: >should be.

: BY such a rationale, one should be allowed to...

: Own any and all weaponry:  guns, explosives, etc.

I want to live in a safe and secure society.  Governments that have
abandoned the ability of the citizenry to defend themselves from tyranny
have resulted in 30,000,000-50,000,000 deaths due to genocide inflicted
by government.  Switerland, on the other hand, has high amounts of
individual ownerwship of military weapons and has not even had much
involvement in wars between governments which have killed many million
more.

: Possess any form of pornography (not to produce, but to own)

When consenting adults produce a pornographic product and sell it to a
willing buyer, that person should not have violence used against them.
When violence or coersion is used to make pornography, I believe that the
victim should have ownership rights for the product.  Anyone that sells
or owns it, has stolen property.

: Operate cars or other machinery while intoxicated (so long as no one is hurt)

The old saying "your rights stop at the end of my nose" is wrong.  If
you take a swing at someone and stop an inch away from their nose, they
blink.  They have been affected.  Their "space" has been violated.  If a
drunk misses you by an inch after coming over the center line of the
road, they have certainly committed an act of violence against you.
Since it was luck that they missed, I think they are as guilty as
someone who is two more inches over.

: Drive at whatever speed they want to.

I think that whoever owns the road has the right to allow their
customers to use that service in any way they see fit.  The old flip
complaint about private ownership of roads used to be "So you want toll
booths every 10 miles then, huh?"  But with the new technologies, even
advertised on TV by AT&T shows that this will be feasable and you would
not have to stop at toll booths.

: If you want to operate on libertarian principles, you have to go the whole 
: 9 yards.

Libertarian principles are that no one (including a group of people
calling themselves government) can initiate the use of force or
use fraud.  Libertarians disagree on how this is implemented.  Your
examples were for implementation not principles.  I have given how I
would apply libertarian principles to your example.  They may differ and
be debatable for other libertarians.  I disagree with your application
of libertarian principles.  I don't think you are against the
principles at all. Are you for the initiation of force against a 
peaceful individual?  Are you for the use of fraud?


-- 
Paul Schmidt:  Advocates for Self-Government, Davy Crockett Chapter President
706 Judith Drive, Johnson City, TN 37604,  (615)283-0084,  pjs269@tijc02.uucp
"May it be to the world...
to assume the blessings and security of self-government." -- Thomas Jefferson