🚀 go-pugleaf

> > : >Papa Jack comments:
> > : >I agree with everything Chris says except the Planned Parenthood
> > : >recommendation.  PPs are chop shops who are the nation's largest
> > : >provider of abortions.  They pretty it up with superficial "coun-
> > : >seling" -- but, the choices/alternatives they offer are limited.

I'm disappointed that you haven't done your homework...PP is the
nation's largest provider b/c they encompass so many clinics under their
PPFA umbrella.  If you choose any area of the country, there will be
other clinics that offer abortions 5 days a week whereas many PP clinics
only provide that service in some of their clinics and only one day a
week.  You do them a disservice by calling them "chop shops" when you
don't give even give them a fair judgement as far as stats.  FYI, 5% of
what PP does is abortions, 95% is family planning, STD services, HIV
testing and counseling, screening for cervical and breast cancer,
prenatal care and general health care in some health clinics, and
unbiased counseling about more than just pregnancy.  They also do
education ("Growing up male/female" which is more and better info than I
got in school) and speaking engagements etc.

> > : PJ, have you ever been pregnant, and gone into a PP, asking for
> > : counseling/choices/alternatives?
> > :
> > : I didn't think so.
> > :
> > : Until you reach that situation, you have no credence.
> > :
> 
> This is nothing more than the tired and totally brain-dead
> argument that valid opinions regarding an issue may only be
> held by those that have been involved with that issue. An
> equally valid (or invalid) case could be made in the
> opposite direction: E.g., being involved in the issue makes
> you emotionally "caught-up" in it and unable to rationally
> and objectively evaluate the facts of the issue.

You are off track.  It is perfectly legitimate to ask someone who is
judging someone on the basis of what they have "heard" if they have ever
had any contact with the person they accuse or have any factual
experience on which to base their accusations.  Yes, you can turn it
around but people are much more likely to believe a debate between two
people with opposite views who have had the same experience i.e. been in
to speak with a PP counselor.

> Let's just listen for the pertinent facts in each person's
> presentation of their view and avoid trying to discredit
> someone because they're not the right sex (or, in this
> discussion, the right age!!!)

The pertinent facts can definitely include whether or not someone has
actually ever spoken with whom they are accusing (BTW if you let him
answer, PJ has had this discussion before and did not feel so violently
about PP.  I don't know what has changed his mind; perhaps he HAS gone
in and spoken with someone there.)  And who cares how old PJ is?  I
certainly don't and I know how old he is.

Jenra 
(yeah, I'm back)