🚀 go-pugleaf

There is so much stuff scattered about in so many different posts that I
wish to write a reply to that it would take hours of cut and paste work to
be able to even attempt to make a coherant response.  Therefore, I will
start over with a new article entirely.

1. Threads such as this one should not be taking place on the general
interest news groups - those groups are for local news and information.
This post has been cross-posted to several regional groups outside the
specific region, and therefore it obviously does not belong in regional
specific general interest groups.  Considering the subject matter, I would
suggest something along the lines of an alt.oracle newsgroup or something
like that - you may have to start your own news group for it.

Yes, I know, at times I have posted like this also, but THAT was for
community events that people outside the specific region might also be
interested in and wanting to attend.  This thread has nothing to do with
community events.

2. Please be considerate enough to keep the same subject line.  This
allows those of us who do not wish to read this stuff to have the article
pre-discarded by the local kill-article file. (Yes, I still have
subjects Tonya Harding and YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA in my kill file...)

However, since you insist upon throwing this stuff into the newsgroup:

1. If we are to believe what arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) is
saying, then vast portions of what Christ says is inaccurate due to
interferance by priests and others.  arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond
Karczewski) then goes on to sprinkle his writings with quotes from Christ.
If what Christ is credited to have said is inaccurate, then how can we
know that what arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) is quoting as Christ
is really Christ?  How do we know that isn't someone else playing around?

As near as I can tell, arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) is doing the
same thing he accuses all other religions of doing: picking and choosing
that which is quoted and promoted.

2. Due to the picking and choosing of quotes that arkent@cdsnet.net
(Raymond Karczewski) is doing, I can't help but have reservations about
it.  For example:

In Re: The Miracle of Simplicity (Sat Sep 07 21:52:08 PDT 1996),
arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) wrote:

>    It is such a statement of projected judgement of another's
>arrogance that is addressed by Christ's statement when He said, "Judge
>not lest Ye be judged."  They're just too ignorant to see it, so they
>intrigue and hide behind their prideful image based in intellectual
>knowledge. Such is the profile of a blind believer and those who
>manipulate them.

[snip]

>  I have given the answer regarding the transition from duality to
>nonduality to millions of seekers over the net.  I have yet to get a
>reply that it has been understood.  BE OPEN, BE QUIET, BE AWARE, BE
>HONEST, BE AT-ONE.


Now, let me see if I understand this properly.  arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond
Karczewski) is promoting a system in which we are told to BE OPEN, BE
QUIET, BE AWARE, BE HONEST, BE AT-ONE.

On the other hand, in the first quote, ( "Judge not lest Ye be judged." )
is taken from both Matthew 7:1-6 and Luke 6:37-38.  Read on a little and 
find the quote "Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock
and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks will receive,
and anyone who seeks will find, and he door will be opened to him who
knocks." in Matthew 7:7-8 and Luke 11:9-13.

Now, are we to believe that "Judge not lest Ye be judged." is a quote from
Christ, while the "Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock
and the door will be opened to you" is not from Christ and is not
accurate?

If it is accurate, then who is it that we are to ask?  Where does the
asking and receiving fit in with:

>  I have given the answer regarding the transition from duality to
>nonduality to millions of seekers over the net.  I have yet to get a
>reply that it has been understood.  BE OPEN, BE QUIET, BE AWARE, BE
>HONEST, BE AT-ONE.

Somehow I don't think that Christ was referring to an e-mail message that
was sent asking, and then having the reply not understood by the receiver.
In fact, reading on in verse 11 of chapter 7 of Matthew: "As bad as you
are, you know how to give good things to your children.  How much more,
then, will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!"

Now, it becomes clear to me that understanding is something that one can
ask God for and receive - at least according to Christ.  Now, I certianly
agree that BE OPEN, BE QUIET, BE AWARE, BE HONEST is something that needs
to be done in order to listen for God's response to a request for
understanding, but where does the request fit in to all this?  As near as
I can tell:

1. arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) is saying that the first part of
Christ's quote is accurate, but the rest of the chapter is not an accurate
representation of Christ's message.  If this is the case, then:
     A. How do we know that the part arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond
        Karczewski) quoted is also accurate?
     B. arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) stated in a previous post
        that intellectual knowledge is one of the sources of arrogance and
        trouble (and I certainly agree!), but are we not allowed to use
        intellectual knowledge in trying to decide what is part of
        Christ's message and what has been added?  If not, then how do we
        know what has been added?

2. arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) is saying that we should pay
attention to Christ's orders to not judge others, but then ignore the
rest of advice from Christ about asking for knowledge from God.  If this
is what is being said, then:
     A. If a small part of Christ's message is important, isn't all of it
        important?
     B. Isn't the part about asking for items (understanding, peace,
        patience etc.) from God important?  Or is understanding
        unimportant?

3. arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski) is saying that we should obey
one part of Christ's teaching but ignore the rest of it because there
isn't a God to grant us what we ask.
     A. If that is the case, then why did Christ command it?
     B. If that is the case, then who is Christ and why should we listen
        to him?

Just a few questions for you Mr. arkent@cdsnet.net (Raymond Karczewski)...

            ^        _______
____________|________| o o |________________
| |                                      | |
| |  Glenn Laubaugh     glennl@up.edu    | |
| |  http://www.up.edu/contrib/glennl    | |
|_|______________________________________|_|
 u   O<V>O       \-----/          O<V>O   u
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      That's no .signature file!
       That's a .caboose file!