🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <4q0s93$8fe@news.magick.net>,
Raymond Karczewski <arkent@magick.net> wrote:
>Re: Suffering;  Was the Defect of Christianity and Society
>
>beauch@teleport.com (Bob Beauchaine) wrote:
>
>>In article <4pr329$o1a@news.magick.net>,
>>Raymond Karczewski <arkent@magick.net> wrote:
>    No Bob, you did not suffer, you experienced physical pain which
>lasted as long as it lasted. When it was over, it was over, never to
>return again.  Suffering would have emerged if and  when you began to
>feel sorry for yourself over your previous, fleeting experience of
>pain.

  Then let's be more precise in our definitions.  I'm unaware of anyone,
  yourself excluded, who doesn't lump physical pain into the definition
  of human suffering.  Perhaps a hammer whack on the thumb is too mild
  to truly be considered suffering.  The pain of terminal bone cancer is
  not.  I contend that such things qualify as suffering.  

>word, while the other focuses on the letter of the word.  You are
>having difficulty with the energy or spirit of my words.  For that
>reason, we simply are not connecting with each other, are we?
>
>>  Societal rules are far from illusory.  Break a couple of the biggies,
>>  like murder or grand theft, for illustration of my point.  And I'll be
>>  the judge of what causes me to truly suffer, thank you very much.
>
>  And that is as it should be Bob.  Accept responsibility for your
>lack of understanding rather than seeking to attack or discredit
>another through petty judgments.  I suggest you meditate on the
>meaning of the statement "Judge not lest Ye be Judged"  

  Ah, abject condescension.  Isn't that just a bit beneath someone who
  has achieved oneness with the universe?

  Oh, I judge others daily, and I expect I am judged by others as well.
  It's only when someone points out how big a fool you are that you
  realize your mistakes.  

>
>>  How then do you account for the fact that I have reached a very
>>  different "truth" than you, yet seem to suffer very little ?
> 
>  Then why do you gravitate toward dualistic argument and cheap shots,
>rather than dialoguing  with another.  Arguments are the combative
>tools used in  power struggles within the domain of the linear
>intellectual mind, hence its dualistic nature is the root cause of
>suffering, while the use of multidimensional  dialogue leads one to
>understanding and ultimate freedom.
>

  "dualistic argument"?  "linear intellecutal mind"? "multideminsinal
  dialogue"?  I accused you before of engaging in obfuscating
  psychobabble.  I stand by that assertion.  I'm sure those loaded
  phrases have deep meaning to you .  They have none to me.  The first
  necessary requirement of useful dialogue is that the participants 
  speak the same language.


>>  Could it be that you don't yet realize that your truths are by no
>>  means universal?  Or that you long winded and arrogant style isn't
>>  bolstering your arguments?
>
>  Sir, I don't argue with anyone for I clearly perceive it to be the
>cause of suffering in the dualistic realm of the mind.  I merely
>reflect "What IS".   Honest and integral individuals are always looked
>on as an anathema to a corrupt consciousness when they mirror the
>corruption of ignorant beliefs back to a conflicted consciousness. 

  As corrupted and ignorant as I may be, I can still spot a snake oil
  salesman when I see one (having been to your web page).  


  You and your ilk have been milking the gullible masses of this earth
  for time immemorial.  You both fabricate a diseases and its cure in
  the same breath.  Those who neither need nor desire your wares are
  labeled the heretic -- "conflicted", "corrupt", and "dualistic".  You
  play the role of afflicted martyr, whose only goal is to help those
  less "educated", beset upon every side by the minions of darkness who
  would shut out your light.
  
  I'm not buying, even for the unbelivable price of only $30 (plus
  shipping and handling).  Whenever I read of someone who claims to have
  the "one true answer for eternal happiness for All Mankind (patent
  pending)", a few good names come to mind:  Jones, Koresh, Moon, Manson.  
  Charlatans, the lot.  But in no short supply.

>   Bob if you truly wish to progress spiritually, you must begin to
>speak only the truth, your truth, nothing else. Stop playing the game
>of hypocrisy  you have been trained to play. Let the truth of your own
>words come  from the depth of your very being.  Only second hand,
>conditioned people rely upon the pat quotes of another.

That's exactly what  you're getting, Raymond.  The truth as I see it.
My "spiritual" growth has brought me to a place where I am quite
comfortable.  I do not need your help in finding myself.  It was only
after I stopped listening to other's pat answers that things became
clear to me.

And only the most arrogant assume that nothing  worth repeating 
has ever been uttered aside from themselves.

>
>  You may feel that I have been harsh with you.  I have merely
>reflected your image back to you.  I also see and understand that you
>are much more than this note would imply, but that doesn't help you
>does it.  You must see it for yourself before the pettiness will drop
>away.  Then we can speak as nondualistic brothers and not be coerced
>into the dualistic roles of antagonists. 

  I'm willing to concede that I might be completely wrong in my
  assessment of you, Raymond.   After all, this is only the internet.
  Should you in fact be sincere in all that you state here, then you
  have my apologies.  If you think that you have what it takes to
  convince a hard core skeptic such as myself, then by all
  means try.  I rather doubt that you and I will speak as "nondualistc
  brothers", though.  For while you may in fact be sincere, you are most
  certainly wrong, at least about me.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Bob Beauchaine

"An atheist is a man who has no invisible means of support."
		Fulton J Sheen, Auxiliary Bishop NYC
--
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