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Meditation or Self Hypnosis:  (Was Re: J Krishnamurti, Toni Packer)
       
19 Oct 2001 13:26:09 -0700

shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote: 

Bruce Morgen (editor@juno.com) wrote in message
news:(s4fhstcf9n2e471a0k8j7r3vo22omppmlp@4ax.com)...

 >>>> "Michael McColl" (mbmc3@home.com) wrote:

Raymond Karczewski (arkent@arkenterprises.com) wrote; 
 
mmc:  >> >>Hello,

mmc:  >> >>    I'm looking for an appropriate venue where I can talk to
others about what these two people have had to say about meditation. I
haven't been able to locate a listserv.  thanks, MM

rk:  What does one acquire by immersing the self in the confused
opinions of others?

rk:  Are you looking for Truth, or do you seek the illusion that is the
consensus of Truth which is no more than collective conditioned belief?  

rk:  Meditate in silence. You shall come to discriminate the vast
differences in those two levels of energies.   "Neti Neti -- Not This,
Not That."  Negate the illusion and all that is left is Truth.

rk:   Do not tarry at the level of engaging ignorant "talk abouts" --
mere blind believers who promulgate and commiserate with other
like-minded believers -- for there is where Hell abounds and holds fast
the consciousness of the limited within their own custom-made prison
cell of Intellect. 

rk:   There is where the Hell-bound stay until they ultimately awaken to
recognize the collective escape from a life of misery and ignorance that
organized religions offer the masses.

rk:  Discern the energy of "Talk Abouts" and "Talk Of's."  Let such
discernment guide you to the Truth you seek. See:
http://www.arkenterprises.com/dialchs3.htm#WISE
 
bm: >>> I don't know about Packer, but 
there is a nominal Krishnamurti 
listserv over a eGroups called 
Listening-l.  Here's my 
favorite Krishnamurti quote 
concerning meditation:
 
bm: > >> "Meditation is not the repetition 
 of the word, nor the experiencing 
 of a vision, nor the cultivating 
 of silence.  The bead and the 
 word do quieten the chattering 
 mind, but this is a form of self-
 hypnosis.  You might as well take 
 a pill."       -- J. Krishnamurti

mm:  >I would offer my opinion, that repetition is the best way to
concentrate the mind.  Whitman practiced it.  Goethe practiced it. All
the Masters at Beas practiced it.  I practiced it.

rk:  Then you and they practice self-hypnosis and call it meditation.

mm: >  J. Krishnamurti is self-contradictory, it seems to me.  Quieting
the mind is meditation.  

rk:  If method is involved in quieting the mind, such ego based method
is Self-hypnosis in operation.  True meditation comes from pure timeless
OBSERVATION sans the interference of time-bound interpretive thought.

mm:  >  If J. Krishnamurti thinks a pill will help us to realize God,
then I don't agree with him.  

rk:  Even to the most unaware, it should be clear that you have
misinterpreted Krishnamurti's comment about the artificially imposed
altered state of consciousness achieved either through the practice of
self-hypnosis or drugs.  

mm:  >  Repetition, Contemplation of the Astral Master, and listening to
the Shabd, Nam, or Holy Spirit will accomplish that, however.

rk:  Yep!  Such long term conditioning practices usually solidify such
hypnotic beliefs into icons of worship.  Thus lies the *Fall of Man* and
his eternal damnation into worshipping the "gods" of his own
*conditioned* thoughts.  

rk:  There is only Supreme Infinite Intelligence, without beginning or
end.  The name given It by man is GOD -- TRUTH.  Resonate with that
unmistakable, unreplicable, unique vibration of nondualistic TRUTH, and
you are in a state of *AT-ONE-MENT* with the unbounded infinite
vibratory essence of  Supreme Intelligence. You are a Child of God --
THAT IS MEDITATION.

mm:  >  Maybe Bruce Morgen could explain, why this quote is his
"favorite?"

Michael

rk:  Why don't you ask bruce what his *favorite song* and *color* is
while you're at it? See what I mean about the immersion of oneself in
kindergartenish superficiality?

rk:  What strikes me as amazing, michael martin, is the level of
ignorance which you have not yet personally penetrated in all these
years while you have sought to hold yourself out as a spiritual teacher
to others.  

rk:   To be fragmented is to be less than whole.  To heal is to make
whole.  

rk:   Wholeness is Truth.  

rk:   HEAL THYSELF before you seek to assist Supreme Intelligence in the
HEALING OF OTHERS.  

                                   Ray Karczewski
-- 
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