🚀 go-pugleaf

ott.education.misc re-instated (why are people pulling it out from
the newsgroup list anyway?)

Ed (ed@inter.com) writes:
> Todd Sandrock wrote:
> 
>> >It's 30 years later so maybe things have changed.
>> 
>> Uh, yes they have. Here's a mercy clue: The government subsidized your
>> tuition to the point where it was nearly free, 
> 
> Really? Perhaps you're right.  My tuition at U of T in 1968 was $471
> (just tuition, not compulsory extras, like leftist student unions). 

Is that per year or per term?

I think the cost at Algonquin College is something in the neighborhood
of $800 per term. Universities are probably slightly higher - especially
now that some programs can charge what the market will bear.

I am not sure how many terms per year are required to graduate - is
it 2 or 3?

> What does that translate to in today's dollars, and what is today's
> tuition?  I don't know the answers; I'd appreciate hearing from anyone
> who does.  I know that my father at that time made just over
> $8,000/year, and the best summer job I could find (through connections)
> paid $65/week.

Last I checked minimum wage in Ontario was somewhere around $7/h,
which makes $280 for a 40-hour week. Students can usually make 
much more than that.
 
>> and loans programs were significantly more generous. 
> 
> I received $850 - almost double my tuition - of which $255 was a grant,
> when I was living at home.  I thought it was indeed very generous, but a
> lot of other students at the time thought their loans/grants were
> totally inadequate, though they often got more than I did.  But this is
> why I pointed out that 30 years have changed and one should examine the
> current state of affairs before judging whether or not to save for kids'
> education, as was the original question.
> 
> You entered a labour market in which it was
>> easy to find work, 
> 
> Quite the opposite, actually.  With all the baby boomers hitting the
> market at the same time, there was a lot of competition for jobs in
> 1972.  There was also a recession; my first job offer was cancelled when
> the company had to cut back.
> 
> and were taxed a significantly lower rate than we are
>> today.
> 
> That is very true.
>  
>> And, "You're welcome". My tax dollars, via debt service payments, are
>> still paying for that European vacation you took in 1970. Hope you
>> enjoyed it. 

Your tax dollars are still paying for things such as job-training
for people who do not need it, while displacing people from jobs where
the employer pays the freight. For example, Algonquin College computer
program students have not been able to get coop jobs lately, because 
the employers prefer to get the free labour provided through the career 
colleges, courtesy of HRDC.

Check out the discussions in ott.education.misc for more on this.

> Thank you.  Yes, they are.  And yes, I did.  It was the best education
> of my life.  And my parents' tax dollars also paid, and decades of mine,
> many at the top rate.
> 
> My kids are not going to have the same opportunity to rip off
>> the generation following *them*.
> 
> Nor are mine.  But I didn't rip off anyone.  I followed the law
> completely.  If the gov't chooses to be ridiculously generous and give
> away money, well, blame them.  They ripped you off.  Instead, you keep
> electing the same gang, with the same tax-and-spend mentality.

A ripoff only exists when a person is being dishonest about obtaining
things. Blame society for living above our means, don't blame the 
individuals who take advantage of what is offered to them.

It is up to us as a group to put a stop to practices that do not
make any sense. 

> It should be noted that I lived a lot more frugally than other
> students.  I didn't drink much beer, rarely did drugs, sought out books
> second-hand, etc.  I also worked as a tutor, both privately and for the
> university.  I could have easily justified that I used the gov't money
> as intended and simply saved my own.  But I wanted to point out how
> generous our gov'ts have been with our money, and that anyone
> contemplating saving should first check and see if they have tightened
> up.