🚀 go-pugleaf

Buzz (purphaze@hotmail.com) writes:
> Andrew Nellis wrote:
>> They appear to have no understanding that spamming requires, bu its very
>> nature, a theft of other people' resources.  In fact, spam is the single
>> greatest THREAT to free speech on the entire Internet.
> 
> Forget spam being the threat, try those stupid brochures, mags& flyers
> in your real mailbox, and what's worse is they have to be
> disposed of afterwards. (Paper, inks) At least with spam, it
> can be cleanly "nuked" or filtered. (no tree's required)

Paper junk mail is paid for by the SENDER.  Junk e-mail is paid for by the
RECIPIENT.  It cannot be "cleanly nuked or filtered."  If it could, do you
think Usenet would be 80% junk?  Do you think mail servers all over the 
planet would be crashing regularly under the sheer weight of all the junk
e-mail passing through them?

> Unless you run a mail server or your an ISP, then the resources
> aren't yours to lose. You rent them. If they fall to an unexceptable
> level, then you change ISP's. Hey, it may force your ISP to upgrade
> his servers. 

It's okay then that spammers run honest, legitimate businesspeople out of
business -- and it happens, just ask joes.com (oh wait, you can't, they
don't EXIST any more) -- so they can turn a quick buck because, hey, there
are lots of other ISPs out there, right?

Who do you think PAYS for these upgraded servers and increased bandwidth
and extra storage space needed to deal with all that junk?  YOU do.  The
spammers could conduct business honestly like the majority of businesses
on the Internet; they have chosen to steal other people's money instead. 
Have you heard of something called the tragedy of the commons?  Evidently
not. 

And how about systems like universities and freenets and community groups
that can't just raise their prices when spammers steal resources meant for
their users?  You think the 20,000 members of the National Capital FreeNet
should be forced to go without Internet access because some twit with a
$20 Netcruiser account wants to send an illegal pyramid scam to ten
million of his closest friends?

> I feel that censorship is by far the greatest threat to the
> internet, not my ability (or lack of) to deal with spam. Everyone should
> be able to connect and share their idea's, products, services.
> This is a free country, even for spammers.

Fine.  Please give me your address.  I will be over at your house tomorrow
with a can of spraypaint.  I want to paint advertisements on the side of
your house and the windshield of your car.  It's a "free country," buddy,
and I want to express myself freely all over your property.  What, you
have an objection to that?  Then why the hell are you telling me I have to
allow criminals to use MY bandwidth and MY mail server and MY storage
space and MY mailbox so THEY can advertise?

> I get a lot more upset at seeing my little mailbox stuffed with
> advertisements and brochures that I have no interest in. Especially
> when I throw them into a large bin in our mailroom, only to see
> a huge stack of them that others in the high-rise had throw away
> as well. I would say that 95% of them were in the trash. This
> happens everyday. That is "real" wasted resource that will
> hurt us more in the long run. Even if they do the recycle thing,
> Its not as environmentally clean as spam in cyberspace.
> What's an 18Gb HD going to be worth compared to a tree
> for your great grandchildren to climb?

This is what's known as a false dichotomy.  You're telling me that
allowing spammers to crash our mail server is going to keep a tree from
being cut down?  Hardly.

"You have to permit me to rob your house, or ten million people will die a
horrible agonizing death.  What, are you a murderer?  You *have* to let me
steal from you!"  That makes about as much sense as what you're saying.

> I do not defend spam, 

Could have fooled me.

--
 +-=-=-=-Andrew Nellis-=-=-=-=-+ ... Don't worry about people stealing .....
 |  bs904@freenet.carleton.ca  | .   your ideas.  If your ideas are any    .
 | NCF Net Abuse Response Team | .   good you'll have to ram them down     .
 +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ ... people's throats.  [Howard Aiken] .....