🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
wrote:

>~
>
>What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>developer?
>
>Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.

And lives in it.

"Paul J. Berg" <pjberg@webtv.net> wrote in message 
news:20525-46675AB1-1213@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
> ~
>
> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
> developer?
>
> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>
> ~
>

Spoken like a true "developer."

So, tell us -- have you raped any farm land today?  clear-cut any forests? 
filled any clear streams with silt??

Don Homuth wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
> wrote:
> 
>> ~
>>
>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>> developer?
>>
>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
> 
> And lives in it.

And turned up the thermostat to 72.

Joe S. wrote:
> "Paul J. Berg" <pjberg@webtv.net> wrote in message 
> news:20525-46675AB1-1213@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
>> ~
>>
>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>> developer?
>>
>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>>
>> ~
>>
> 
> Spoken like a true "developer."

Spoken like a tent dwelling luddite.

> So, tell us -- have you raped any farm land today? 


So tell us did a farmer sell it off and retire to Costa Rica?

> clear-cut any forests? 

Last year that happened?

> filled any clear streams with silt??

Crapped on the ground at the Rainbow Family gathering?

On Jun 6, 7:10 pm, "Joe S." <non...@nosuch.net> wrote:
> "Paul J. Berg" <pjb...@webtv.net> wrote in messagenews:20525-46675AB1-1213@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
>
> > ~
>
> > What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
> > developer?
>
> > Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>
> > ~
>
> Spoken like a true "developer."
>
> So, tell us -- have you raped any farm land today?  clear-cut any forests?
> filled any clear streams with silt??

Day's not over yet.

"Joe S." <noname@nosuch.net> wrote:

> 
> "Paul J. Berg" <pjberg@webtv.net> wrote in message 
> news:20525-46675AB1-1213@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
>> ~
>>
>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>> developer?
>>
>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>>
>> ~
>>
> 
> Spoken like a true "developer."
> 
> So, tell us -- have you raped any farm land today?  clear-cut any
> forests? filled any clear streams with silt??

You flush, or are you collecting?

Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "Joe S." <noname@nosuch.net> wrote:
> 
>> "Paul J. Berg" <pjberg@webtv.net> wrote in message 
>> news:20525-46675AB1-1213@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
>>> ~
>>>
>>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>>> developer?
>>>
>>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>>>
>>> ~
>>>
>> Spoken like a true "developer."
>>
>> So, tell us -- have you raped any farm land today?  clear-cut any
>> forests? filled any clear streams with silt??
> 
> You flush, or are you collecting?

Funnel - mouth - flush.

I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.

Steven wrote:
> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
> 
You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.

On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> > I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
>
> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.

We don't need no STINKING diets! We can also blow past road bikers in
funny shorts in spite of being 5' 8", weighing 280 lbs, having
diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and riding a heavy lugged 1950s
single speed Rollfast with motorcycle saddlebags adding a bit over 15
lbs to the bike's weight.

Not good but not bad at 41.

NEXT!

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Steven wrote:
>>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
>> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
> 
> We don't need no STINKING 


Fuck off shit-head.

On Jun 6, 10:33 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >> Steven wrote:
> >>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
> >> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
>
> > We don't need no STINKING
>
> Fuck off shit-head.

I don't have a webcam and only for chicks so it seems you are twice
removed from luck.

On Jun 6, 10:33 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >> Steven wrote:
> >>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
> >> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
>
> > We don't need no STINKING
>
> Fuck off shit-head.

BTW that was a regular staple of Jazzbeau Collins during his fabled
career in Bay Area broadcasting.

You're not actually mad about a slur of any kind.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 02:43:53 GMT, trijicon <dev@null.set> wrote:

>Don Homuth wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> ~
>>>
>>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>>> developer?
>>>
>>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>> 
>> And lives in it.
>
>And turned up the thermostat to 72.

Nah -- the temperature just Stays at 72, by virtue of the
super-insulation and passive solar heat gain, the attached greenhouse,
etc.

That's how my house stays at 72, even with the thermostats set at 67.

In addition, there's the heat that comes from the other appliances --
refrigerator, water heater, etc.

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 6, 10:33 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Steven wrote:
>>> On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>>> Steven wrote:
>>>>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
>>>> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
>>> We don't need no STINKING
>> Fuck off shit-head.
> 
> I don't have a webcam 

I don't care.

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 6, 10:33 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Steven wrote:
>>> On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>>> Steven wrote:
>>>>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
>>>> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
>>> We don't need no STINKING
>> Fuck off shit-head.
> 
> BTW that was a regular staple of Jazzbeau Collins during his fabled
> career in Bay Area broadcasting.


Uh...ok???

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Steven wrote:
>>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
>> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
> 
> We don't need no STINKING diets! We can also blow past road bikers in
> funny shorts in spite of being 5' 8", weighing 280 lbs, having
> diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and riding a heavy lugged 1950s
> single speed Rollfast with motorcycle saddlebags adding a bit over 15
> lbs to the bike's weight.
> 
> Not good but not bad at 41.
> 
> NEXT!
> 
You may not live to see 51 at that weight.

On Jun 7, 9:04 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 02:43:53 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >Don Homuth wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> ~
>
> >>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
> >>> developer?
>
> >>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>
> >> And lives in it.
>
> >And turned up the thermostat to 72.
>
> Nah -- the temperature just Stays at 72, by virtue of the
> super-insulation and passive solar heat gain, the attached greenhouse,
> etc.
>
> That's how my house stays at 72, even with the thermostats set at 67.
>
> In addition, there's the heat that comes from the other appliances --
> refrigerator, water heater, etc.

If that actually made a difference you wouldn't need all that Stuff.

Avocado Green Frigidaire (when they were still owned by GM) AND a ''78
Gibson
Two fullsized Sharp microwaves
fairly new average sized electric water heater

50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
not to.

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 7, 9:04 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 02:43:53 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ~
>>>>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>>>>> developer?
>>>>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>>>> And lives in it.
>>> And turned up the thermostat to 72.
>> Nah -- the temperature just Stays at 72, by virtue of the
>> super-insulation and passive solar heat gain, the attached greenhouse,
>> etc.
>>
>> That's how my house stays at 72, even with the thermostats set at 67.
>>
>> In addition, there's the heat that comes from the other appliances --
>> refrigerator, water heater, etc.
> 
> If that actually made a difference you wouldn't need all that Stuff.
> 
> Avocado Green Frigidaire (when they were still owned by GM) AND a ''78
> Gibson
> Two fullsized Sharp microwaves
> fairly new average sized electric water heater
> 
> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
> not to.
> 
get a job.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:40:28 -0700, Steven
<thisjukeboxplays33rpm@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jun 7, 9:04 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 02:43:53 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> >Don Homuth wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>> ~
>>
>> >>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>> >>> developer?
>>
>> >>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>>
>> >> And lives in it.
>>
>> >And turned up the thermostat to 72.
>>
>> Nah -- the temperature just Stays at 72, by virtue of the
>> super-insulation and passive solar heat gain, the attached greenhouse,
>> etc.
>>
>> That's how my house stays at 72, even with the thermostats set at 67.
>>
>> In addition, there's the heat that comes from the other appliances --
>> refrigerator, water heater, etc.
>
>If that actually made a difference you wouldn't need all that Stuff.

I need a refrigerator and a water heater.  Each is Star rated on the
energy scale sufficiently to have received a State Rebate for their
purchase and use.

My local electric co-op and I monitored how that works for several
months, just for the hell of it.  (Nice folks at Salem Electric.
Heavily into Conservation programs for the members hereabouts.  Much
better than PGE across the river.)  The heat given off by in-house
appliances is actually relatively significant.  Put your hand behind
your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.

>Avocado Green Frigidaire (when they were still owned by GM) AND a ''78
>Gibson

Eventually they'll break down, but they sell well at garage sales --
which is what we did with ours.

>Two fullsized Sharp microwaves

We bought a good one of those for some reheating purposes.  Beats hell
out of using the stove -- so that works.  And if you have it vented
inside, you don't lose the heat either.

>fairly new average sized electric water heater

Ours is fairly large, but Very well insulated with a Very high
efficiency rating.  Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
-- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
wintertime.

>50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>not to.

Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
built in the neighborhood close by.  

Do whatcha gotta do there, in that case.  When I bought this place in
1993, the first round of remodeling involved some HD changes to
insulation in walls, ceiling and under the floors, replacement of All
the windows (which were at the time single-pane aluminum) with
double-pane, argon-filled, vinyl-clad, Low E and for all I know
kryptonite-powered.  The electric co-op underwrote half of all of
that.

Then did a Massive air infiltration examination -- which included the
co-op folks bringing over a door-mounted fan and pressurizing the
house to find where the heat leakages were.  That took some work but
didn't cost much to repair hardly at all.  Caulking and
weather-stripping mostly.

Then replaced the previous dark brown roof with a white one, to reduce
summertime cooling problems.  (Barely need an a/c unit any more, and
then only a small one for the bedroom that vents into the attached
greenhouse.)  Place cools down quite wonderfully at night, and then in
the morning we close it up and it scarce heats up.  Even during 100+
temperatures, the internal temperature runs 15-18 degrees cooler than
outside.

Then replaced all of the electric appliances with new ones, purchased
specifically for their efficiency ratings, and naturally replaced all
of the light bulbs with the high-efficiency ones.

As a result, since this house is all-electric so I can track usage
over the long term rather easily, the First time that the Overall
electric bill for the place (and it's 2500 square ft or thereabouts)
for heat, lights, cooking, computers, entertainment -- the entire
shebang across the entire house -- went to over $1,000/year was two
going on three years or so ago.  It remains at about $1300/year even
now, after the recent rate increases.

That's pretty damned good, by any measure.

Two years ago, I rebuilt the attached greenhouse, to make it function
more efficiently as a solar collector, along with just making it look
a lot nicer.  Now of a sunny morning even during the winter, once the
sun hits it the internal temp hits 75F or so within an hour, and
opening a window or door into the main house takes advantage of that
heat.   Along with the Large windows in the family room too.

And since it's on the east, the heat comes at the right time --
morning.  By afternoon when the sun can get Really hot in the
summertime, it's pretty much in shadow.  And there are only two fairly
small windows on the west wall of the house, so that's not a problem
either.

It was sorta fun -- re-doing the place to maximize energy efficiency.
Anyone can do it, depending on finances naturally.  And some time
available to either do the work (I did the air infiltration stuff) or
hire it done (roof and windows ftmp).

The cost of operation of my place is surprisingly modest -- probably
less than half of what a similar place would be without the
improvements.

I'm quite pleased, overall.

New construction would be easier to build these sorts of things into
from the getgo, but I'm surprised at how seldom it gets done.

(I understand that the investor-owned utilities aren't Nearly so
interested in conservation as are the cooperatives.  That's mostly
because Investors want you to use More of their product -- not less.
Which is understandable.  But then, it's your money.)

Don Homuth wrote:
> Put your hand behind
> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.

Make sure and stand in a puddle of water when you do...

> Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
> wintertime.

Great place for you to hang out.

>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>> not to.
> 
> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
> built in the neighborhood close by.  

NO ONE FUCKING CARES!!!

Call Bob Vila!

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:08:43 GMT, trijicon <dev@null.set> wrote:

>Don Homuth wrote:
>> Put your hand behind
>> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.
>
>Make sure and stand in a puddle of water when you do...

GFIs -- the good ones work every time.  Installed in the entire
kitchen as part of the remodel.

>> Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
>> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
>> wintertime.
>
>Great place for you to hang out.

It doubles as a pantry and a place for the air rack for drying
clothes.  Usually a tad too humid.

>>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>>> not to.
>> 
>> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
>> built in the neighborhood close by.  
>
>NO ONE FUCKING CARES!!!

You don't.  Steven apparently does.  Everyone isn't you or even Like
you.

It's a good thing to use energy efficiently.  It's good for You that I
do, for example.

>Call Bob Vila!

Don't need to do that.  Handled it all pretty much on my own, and
contracted for the stuff I couldn't do.

Which is also a good thing.

Don Homuth wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:08:43 GMT, trijicon <dev@null.set> wrote:
> 
>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>> Put your hand behind
>>> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.
>> Make sure and stand in a puddle of water when you do...
> 
> GFIs -- 

Damn.

>>> Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
>>> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
>>> wintertime.
>> Great place for you to hang out.
> 
> It doubles as a pantry and a place for the air rack for drying
> clothes.  Usually a tad too humid.

Live there.

>>>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>>>> not to.
>>> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
>>> built in the neighborhood close by.  
>> NO ONE FUCKING CARES!!!
> 
> You don't.  Steven apparently does.  

Steven is a nutbar.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:19:03 GMT, trijicon <dev@null.set> wrote:

>Don Homuth wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:08:43 GMT, trijicon <dev@null.set> wrote:
>> 
>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>> Put your hand behind
>>>> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.
>>> Make sure and stand in a puddle of water when you do...
>> 
>> GFIs -- 
>
>Damn.

Disappointing, idnit.

>>>> Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
>>>> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
>>>> wintertime.
>>> Great place for you to hang out.
>> 
>> It doubles as a pantry and a place for the air rack for drying
>> clothes.  Usually a tad too humid.
>
>Live there.

We live in the Entire house, so there is just another part.  Living
involves many sorts of things.

>>>>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>>>>> not to.
>>>> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
>>>> built in the neighborhood close by.  
>>> NO ONE FUCKING CARES!!!
>> 
>> You don't.  Steven apparently does.  
>
>Steven is a nutbar.

And you are a self-indulgent twit.  But that doesn't stop you from
positing all manner of stuff You wish to discuss.  Surely Steven has
the same option.

Don Homuth wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:19:03 GMT, trijicon <dev@null.set> wrote:
> 
>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:08:43 GMT, trijicon <dev@null.set> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>> Put your hand behind
>>>>> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.
>>>> Make sure and stand in a puddle of water when you do...
>>> GFIs -- 
>> Damn.
> 
> Disappointing, idnit.

yes.

>>>>> Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
>>>>> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
>>>>> wintertime.
>>>> Great place for you to hang out.
>>> It doubles as a pantry and a place for the air rack for drying
>>> clothes.  Usually a tad too humid.
>> Live there.
> 
> We live in the Entire house, 

undeserved luxury.

>>>>>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>>>>>> not to.
>>>>> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
>>>>> built in the neighborhood close by.  
>>>> NO ONE FUCKING CARES!!!
>>> You don't.  Steven apparently does.  
>> Steven is a nutbar.
> 
> And you are a self-indulgent twit.  

projection.

Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:

> (I understand that the investor-owned utilities aren't Nearly so
> interested in conservation as are the cooperatives. 

As usual, you understand wrong. Every month I get some offer or another 
from them to do this or that to save energy.

On Jun 7, 12:19 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> Don Homuth wrote:
> > On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:08:43 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>
> >> Don Homuth wrote:
> >>> Put your hand behind
> >>> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.
> >> Make sure and stand in a puddle of water when you do...
>
> > GFIs --
>
> Damn.
>
> >>> Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
> >>> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
> >>> wintertime.
> >> Great place for you to hang out.
>
> > It doubles as a pantry and a place for the air rack for drying
> > clothes.  Usually a tad too humid.
>
> Live there.
>
> >>>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
> >>>> not to.
> >>> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
> >>> built in the neighborhood close by.  
> >> NO ONE FUCKING CARES!!!
>
> > You don't.  Steven apparently does.  
>
> Steven is a nutbar.

You're a gay squirrel. I thought nutbars made you happy.

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 7, 12:19 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:08:43 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>> Put your hand behind
>>>>> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.
>>>> Make sure and stand in a puddle of water when you do...
>>> GFIs --
>> Damn.
>>
>>>>> Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
>>>>> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
>>>>> wintertime.
>>>> Great place for you to hang out.
>>> It doubles as a pantry and a place for the air rack for drying
>>> clothes.  Usually a tad too humid.
>> Live there.
>>
>>>>>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>>>>>> not to.
>>>>> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
>>>>> built in the neighborhood close by.  
>>>> NO ONE FUCKING CARES!!!
>>> You don't.  Steven apparently does.  
>> Steven is a nutbar.
> 
> You're a gay squirrel. I thought nutbars made you happy.
> 
You have me confused with paula, I'll tell her you called though...

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:37:38 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:

>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> (I understand that the investor-owned utilities aren't Nearly so
>> interested in conservation as are the cooperatives. 
>
>As usual, you understand wrong. Every month I get some offer or another 
>from them to do this or that to save energy.

Do they offer you a subsidy to do that with?  Offer to pay some of the
costs?  Maybe half?

Or do they suggest that You take your actions all on your own?

On Jun 7, 9:53 am, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 10:33 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >> Steven wrote:
> >>> On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >>>> Steven wrote:
> >>>>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
> >>>> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
> >>> We don't need no STINKING
> >> Fuck off shit-head.
>
> > BTW that was a regular staple of Jazzbeau Collins during his fabled
> > career in Bay Area broadcasting.
>
> Uh...ok???

We don't need any/no stinking...

You are young and don't get around much? <scratches head>

On Jun 7, 10:01 am, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >> Steven wrote:
> >>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
> >> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
>
> > We don't need no STINKING diets! We can also blow past road bikers in
> > funny shorts in spite of being 5' 8", weighing 280 lbs, having
> > diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and riding a heavy lugged 1950s
> > single speed Rollfast with motorcycle saddlebags adding a bit over 15
> > lbs to the bike's weight.
>
> > Not good but not bad at 41.
>
> > NEXT!
>
> You may not live to see 51 at that weight.

I don't expect to.

On Jun 7, 11:41 am, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> Steven wrote:
> > On Jun 7, 9:04 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 02:43:53 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >>> Don Homuth wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> ~
> >>>>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
> >>>>> developer?
> >>>>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
> >>>> And lives in it.
> >>> And turned up the thermostat to 72.
> >> Nah -- the temperature just Stays at 72, by virtue of the
> >> super-insulation and passive solar heat gain, the attached greenhouse,
> >> etc.
>
> >> That's how my house stays at 72, even with the thermostats set at 67.
>
> >> In addition, there's the heat that comes from the other appliances --
> >> refrigerator, water heater, etc.
>
> > If that actually made a difference you wouldn't need all that Stuff.
>
> > Avocado Green Frigidaire (when they were still owned by GM) AND a ''78
> > Gibson
> > Two fullsized Sharp microwaves
> > fairly new average sized electric water heater
>
> > 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
> > not to.
>
> get a job.

With my medical condition as you see it? We're getting schizoid
perhaps.

On Jun 7, 12:03 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:40:28 -0700, Steven
>
>
>
>
>
> <thisjukeboxplays33...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 7, 9:04 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 02:43:53 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
> >> >Don Homuth wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >>> ~
>
> >> >>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
> >> >>> developer?
>
> >> >>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>
> >> >> And lives in it.
>
> >> >And turned up the thermostat to 72.
>
> >> Nah -- the temperature just Stays at 72, by virtue of the
> >> super-insulation and passive solar heat gain, the attached greenhouse,
> >> etc.
>
> >> That's how my house stays at 72, even with the thermostats set at 67.
>
> >> In addition, there's the heat that comes from the other appliances --
> >> refrigerator, water heater, etc.
>
> >If that actually made a difference you wouldn't need all that Stuff.
>
> I need a refrigerator and a water heater.  Each is Star rated on the
> energy scale sufficiently to have received a State Rebate for their
> purchase and use.
>
> My local electric co-op and I monitored how that works for several
> months, just for the hell of it.  (Nice folks at Salem Electric.
> Heavily into Conservation programs for the members hereabouts.  Much
> better than PGE across the river.)  The heat given off by in-house
> appliances is actually relatively significant.  Put your hand behind
> your refrigerator or freezer sometime when it's running, for example.
>
> >Avocado Green Frigidaire (when they were still owned by GM) AND a ''78
> >Gibson
>
> Eventually they'll break down, but they sell well at garage sales --
> which is what we did with ours.
>
> >Two fullsized Sharp microwaves
>
> We bought a good one of those for some reheating purposes.  Beats hell
> out of using the stove -- so that works.  And if you have it vented
> inside, you don't lose the heat either.
>
> >fairly new average sized electric water heater
>
> Ours is fairly large, but Very well insulated with a Very high
> efficiency rating.  Even at that, though, it does result in some heat
> -- which keeps the laundry/utility room very comfortable even in the
> wintertime.
>
> >50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
> >not to.
>
> Mine is now about 60 years old.  One of the last lath & plaster homes
> built in the neighborhood close by.  
>
> Do whatcha gotta do there, in that case.  When I bought this place in
> 1993, the first round of remodeling involved some HD changes to
> insulation in walls, ceiling and under the floors, replacement of All
> the windows (which were at the time single-pane aluminum) with
> double-pane, argon-filled, vinyl-clad, Low E and for all I know
> kryptonite-powered.  The electric co-op underwrote half of all of
> that.
>
> Then did a Massive air infiltration examination -- which included the
> co-op folks bringing over a door-mounted fan and pressurizing the
> house to find where the heat leakages were.  That took some work but
> didn't cost much to repair hardly at all.  Caulking and
> weather-stripping mostly.
>
> Then replaced the previous dark brown roof with a white one, to reduce
> summertime cooling problems.  (Barely need an a/c unit any more, and
> then only a small one for the bedroom that vents into the attached
> greenhouse.)  Place cools down quite wonderfully at night, and then in
> the morning we close it up and it scarce heats up.  Even during 100+
> temperatures, the internal temperature runs 15-18 degrees cooler than
> outside.
>
> Then replaced all of the electric appliances with new ones, purchased
> specifically for their efficiency ratings, and naturally replaced all
> of the light bulbs with the high-efficiency ones.
>
> As a result, since this house is all-electric so I can track usage
> over the long term rather easily, the First time that the Overall
> electric bill for the place (and it's 2500 square ft or thereabouts)
> for heat, lights, cooking, computers, entertainment -- the entire
> shebang across the entire house -- went to over $1,000/year was two
> going on three years or so ago.  It remains at about $1300/year even
> now, after the recent rate increases.
>
> That's pretty damned good, by any measure.
>
> Two years ago, I rebuilt the attached greenhouse, to make it function
> more efficiently as a solar collector, along with just making it look
> a lot nicer.  Now of a sunny morning even during the winter, once the
> sun hits it the internal temp hits 75F or so within an hour, and
> opening a window or door into the main house takes advantage of that
> heat.   Along with the Large windows in the family room too.
>
> And since it's on the east, the heat comes at the right time --
> morning.  By afternoon when the sun can get Really hot in the
> summertime, it's pretty much in shadow.  And there are only two fairly
> small windows on the west wall of the house, so that's not a problem
> either.
>
> It was sorta fun -- re-doing the place to maximize energy efficiency.
> Anyone can do it, depending on finances naturally.  And some time
> available to either do the work (I did the air infiltration stuff) or
> hire it done (roof and windows ftmp).
>
> The cost of operation of my place is surprisingly modest -- probably
> less than half of what a similar place would be without the
> improvements.
>
> I'm quite pleased, overall.
>
> New construction would be easier to build these sorts of things into
> from the getgo, but I'm surprised at how seldom it gets done.
>
> (I understand that the investor-owned utilities aren't Nearly so
> interested in conservation as are the cooperatives.  That's mostly
> because Investors want you to use More of their product -- not less.
> Which is understandable.  But then, it's your money.)

I rent.

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 7, 9:53 am, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Steven wrote:
>>> On Jun 6, 10:33 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>>> Steven wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>>>>> Steven wrote:
>>>>>>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
>>>>>> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
>>>>> We don't need no STINKING
>>>> Fuck off shit-head.
>>> BTW that was a regular staple of Jazzbeau Collins during his fabled
>>> career in Bay Area broadcasting.
>> Uh...ok???
> 
> We don't need any/no stinking...
> 
> You are young and don't get around much? <scratches head>
> 
Not to SF anyway.

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 7, 10:01 am, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Steven wrote:
>>> On Jun 6, 9:24 pm, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>>> Steven wrote:
>>>>> I see this is the Reader's Digest Condensed Usenet version.
>>>> You snip the body text, you are Nutri System NG style.
>>> We don't need no STINKING diets! We can also blow past road bikers in
>>> funny shorts in spite of being 5' 8", weighing 280 lbs, having
>>> diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and riding a heavy lugged 1950s
>>> single speed Rollfast with motorcycle saddlebags adding a bit over 15
>>> lbs to the bike's weight.
>>> Not good but not bad at 41.
>>> NEXT!
>> You may not live to see 51 at that weight.
> 
> I don't expect to.
> 
> 
Damnit you need an attitude adjustment!

Think positively!

Steven wrote:
> On Jun 7, 11:41 am, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>> Steven wrote:
>>> On Jun 7, 9:04 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 02:43:53 GMT, trijicon <d...@null.set> wrote:
>>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:09:05 -0700, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> ~
>>>>>>> What is difference between a conservationist and a real estate
>>>>>>> developer?
>>>>>>> Answer: The conservationist built their house a year earlier.
>>>>>> And lives in it.
>>>>> And turned up the thermostat to 72.
>>>> Nah -- the temperature just Stays at 72, by virtue of the
>>>> super-insulation and passive solar heat gain, the attached greenhouse,
>>>> etc.
>>>> That's how my house stays at 72, even with the thermostats set at 67.
>>>> In addition, there's the heat that comes from the other appliances --
>>>> refrigerator, water heater, etc.
>>> If that actually made a difference you wouldn't need all that Stuff.
>>> Avocado Green Frigidaire (when they were still owned by GM) AND a ''78
>>> Gibson
>>> Two fullsized Sharp microwaves
>>> fairly new average sized electric water heater
>>> 50+ year old house and I freeze my butt until I can absolutely AFFORD
>>> not to.
>> get a job.
> 
> With my medical condition as you see it? We're getting schizoid
> perhaps.
> 

Computer work.

Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:37:38 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> (I understand that the investor-owned utilities aren't Nearly so
>>> interested in conservation as are the cooperatives. 
>>
>>As usual, you understand wrong. Every month I get some offer or
>>another from them to do this or that to save energy.
> 
> Do they offer you a subsidy to do that with?  Offer to pay some of the
> costs?  Maybe half?

Yeah, they do. I thought that was pretty implicit in what I said. Forgot 
for a moment to whom I was talking.

> 
> Or do they suggest that You take your actions all on your own?
> 

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 02:35:56 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:

>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:37:38 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> (I understand that the investor-owned utilities aren't Nearly so
>>>> interested in conservation as are the cooperatives. 
>>>
>>>As usual, you understand wrong. Every month I get some offer or
>>>another from them to do this or that to save energy.
>> 
>> Do they offer you a subsidy to do that with?  Offer to pay some of the
>> costs?  Maybe half?
>
>Yeah, they do. I thought that was pretty implicit in what I said. Forgot 
>for a moment to whom I was talking.

PGE does Not offer such incentives hereabouts.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:45:02 -0700, Steven
<thisjukeboxplays33rpm@yahoo.com> wrote:


>I rent.

If your utilities are included in your rent, then no worries.  If they
are not, there are still some things you could do at relatively low
cost.