🚀 go-pugleaf

if it was nato that had started all of this you just might have a point.

but as things are, it appears that the people in charge of serbia now are
out for "living room" much like the nazi germany you are comparing nato to.
and the documentation that the serbs are "cleansing" the area of non-serbs
is established.

would you prefer to get beat up by the bully over your lunch money everyday,
or stand up and say no more?

at what point do you feel that the non-serbs deserve the same consideration
you appear to suggest only belongs to the poor suffering serbs, living in
that house they stole from a muslim croat 5 years ago?


Sorin Achim wrote:

> This is a new "phase" in the NATO vs. Serbia undeclared war?  Or it is
> the same "phase" which allowed
> the bombing of a civilian train and some insignificant Albanian
> refugees?
>
> "In Surdulica, a huge crater was all that remained of one house, where
> locals said 16 people, mainly children and the elderly, had been
> sheltering
> in a basement when two NATO missiles hit. " from NYTimes.com  today
>
> "Despite Tuesday's deaths, the number of civilians killed by NATO air
> raids
> is dwarfed by the scale of the humanitarian crisis faced by ethnic
> Albanian
> refugees from Kosovo, Robertson said. "  from CNN today
>
> Excuse me? Is this some kind of Nazi excuse for unpardonable killings?
>
> This impotent organization called NATO is trying to fool the world it is
> not a corpse...
> Well, they showed us it can kill innocent civilians including children,
> no matter they are Kosovars or Serbs...
>
> The "brave"  NATO men and women push "heroically" missile buttons while
> drinking coffee...
> And kill children by the dozen... Again, no matter they are Albanians or
> Serbs...
>
> Well, that's civilized...
>
> And all this is going to cost the taxpayers around 6 BILLION dollars?

James:

Even NATO officials agree that only with air power the Serbs will not go out of
Kosovo.  Yet, they are not going to send ground troops.

I just think that what happens there is stupid...and it gets worse...

What are 6-10 BILLION DOLLARS spent for then?  Just to see how an "invisible"

multi-million dollar stealth fighter is brought down by an old missile?  How
the multi-million dollar high-tech missiles can not be redirected before
hitting a civilian train? Or maybe how the same multi-million dollar missiles
hit civilian residential areas instead of empty military buildings?  Or maybe
watching Albanians killed by a missile coming from their "savior" ?

Or deepening the hatred between those nations to the point where everything will
just blow up in Balkans? Worsening the economic situation for all the countries
in that area? Causing an ecological disaster from the chemical and oil plants
struck by NATO missiles?

It's easy from here: it's like a NINTENDO game, isn't it? But when the NATO
troops go home after they get bored with the game (see Vietnam, Somalia, Korea,
etc) what is left there is DISASTER.  Not for Milosevici and his gang, but for
the regular folks.

And the game's  prize is known to anybody who has some brain: Save the face of
NATO at any price - no matter how many  "colateral" killings occur...

Sorin



James F Wadlow wrote:

> if it was nato that had started all of this you just might have a point.
>
> but as things are, it appears that the people in charge of serbia now are
> out for "living room" much like the nazi germany you are comparing nato to.
> and the documentation that the serbs are "cleansing" the area of non-serbs
> is established.
>
> would you prefer to get beat up by the bully over your lunch money everyday,
> or stand up and say no more?
>
> at what point do you feel that the non-serbs deserve the same consideration
> you appear to suggest only belongs to the poor suffering serbs, living in
> that house they stole from a muslim croat 5 years ago?
>
> Sorin Achim wrote:
>
> > This is a new "phase" in the NATO vs. Serbia undeclared war?  Or it is
> > the same "phase" which allowed
> > the bombing of a civilian train and some "insignificant" Albanian
> > refugees?
> >
> > "In Surdulica, a huge crater was all that remained of one house, where
> > locals said 16 people, mainly children and the elderly, had been
> > sheltering
> > in a basement when two NATO missiles hit. " from NYTimes.com  today
> >
> > "Despite Tuesday's deaths, the number of civilians killed by NATO air
> > raids
> > is dwarfed by the scale of the humanitarian crisis faced by ethnic
> > Albanian
> > refugees from Kosovo, Robertson said. "  from CNN today
> >
> > Excuse me? Is this some kind of Nazi excuse for unpardonable killings?
> >
> > This impotent organization called NATO is trying to fool the world it is
> > not a corpse...
> > Well, they showed us it can kill innocent civilians including children,
> > no matter they are Kosovars or Serbs...
> >
> > The "brave"  NATO men and women push "heroically" missile buttons while
> > drinking coffee...
> > And kill children by the dozen... Again, no matter they are Albanians or
> > Serbs...
> >
> > Well, that's civilized...
> >
> > And all this is going to cost the taxpayers around 6 BILLION dollars?

it's okay that you appear to have a personal involvement with this issue.
being against war is a GOOD thing.

letting somebody drive your aunt from her home and then shoot her in the back as she
leaves, deserves a different response.

face one simple fact: the serbs have been agressors in that area for some time,
chasing away those they could and killing those they could get away with.

were you so fired up about war in the area when the serbs were fighting without
massive opposition?

take a neutral view and then tell me that the serbs are innocent in this, and
undeserving of the actions being taken to end the suffering in the region.


Sorin wrote:

> James:
>
> Even NATO officials agree that only with air power the Serbs will not go out of
> Kosovo.  Yet, they are not going to send ground troops.
>
> I just think that what happens there is stupid...and it gets worse...
>
> What are 6-10 BILLION DOLLARS spent for then?  Just to see how an "invisible"
>
> multi-million dollar stealth fighter is brought down by an old missile?  How
> the multi-million dollar high-tech missiles can not be redirected before
> hitting a civilian train? Or maybe how the same multi-million dollar missiles
> hit civilian residential areas instead of empty military buildings?  Or maybe
> watching Albanians killed by a missile coming from their "savior" ?
>
> Or deepening the hatred between those nations to the point where everything will
> just blow up in Balkans? Worsening the economic situation for all the countries
> in that area? Causing an ecological disaster from the chemical and oil plants
> struck by NATO missiles?
>
> It's easy from here: it's like a NINTENDO game, isn't it? But when the NATO
> troops go home after they get bored with the game (see Vietnam, Somalia, Korea,
> etc) what is left there is DISASTER.  Not for Milosevici and his gang, but for
> the regular folks.
>
> And the game's  prize is known to anybody who has some brain: Save the face of
> NATO at any price - no matter how many  "colateral" killings occur...
>
> Sorin
>
> James F Wadlow wrote:
>
> > if it was nato that had started all of this you just might have a point.
> >
> > but as things are, it appears that the people in charge of serbia now are
> > out for "living room" much like the nazi germany you are comparing nato to.
> > and the documentation that the serbs are "cleansing" the area of non-serbs
> > is established.
> >
> > would you prefer to get beat up by the bully over your lunch money everyday,
> > or stand up and say no more?
> >
> > at what point do you feel that the non-serbs deserve the same consideration
> > you appear to suggest only belongs to the poor suffering serbs, living in
> > that house they stole from a muslim croat 5 years ago?
> >
> > Sorin Achim wrote:
> >
> > > This is a new "phase" in the NATO vs. Serbia undeclared war?  Or it is
> > > the same "phase" which allowed
> > > the bombing of a civilian train and some "insignificant" Albanian
> > > refugees?
> > >
> > > "In Surdulica, a huge crater was all that remained of one house, where
> > > locals said 16 people, mainly children and the elderly, had been
> > > sheltering
> > > in a basement when two NATO missiles hit. " from NYTimes.com  today
> > >
> > > "Despite Tuesday's deaths, the number of civilians killed by NATO air
> > > raids
> > > is dwarfed by the scale of the humanitarian crisis faced by ethnic
> > > Albanian
> > > refugees from Kosovo, Robertson said. "  from CNN today
> > >
> > > Excuse me? Is this some kind of Nazi excuse for unpardonable killings?
> > >
> > > This impotent organization called NATO is trying to fool the world it is
> > > not a corpse...
> > > Well, they showed us it can kill innocent civilians including children,
> > > no matter they are Kosovars or Serbs...
> > >
> > > The "brave"  NATO men and women push "heroically" missile buttons while
> > > drinking coffee...
> > > And kill children by the dozen... Again, no matter they are Albanians or
> > > Serbs...
> > >
> > > Well, that's civilized...
> > >
> > > And all this is going to cost the taxpayers around 6 BILLION dollars?

James:

>take a neutral view and then tell me that the serbs are innocent in this, and
>undeserving of the actions being taken to end the suffering in the region.

I can not tell you that...

> the actions being taken to end the suffering in the region.

To end the suffering in the region? Are you talkinf from your dreams?
Get real...

Almost all the Kosovars are now either dead or OUT of Kosovo and kept
like ANIMALS in 
UN/NATO run camps...
All the Balkan countries have their economies  destroyed: trade halted,
markets destroyed...
Kosovars killed by NATO missiles...
Children killed by NATO missiles...
Civilian TV technicians killed by NATO missiles...

Not enough?

Serbs still in Kosovo and most of the military planners agree that they
will not get out only because NATO is sending bombs and missiles...
The ethnic balance in the neighboring countries is compromised...=>
civil war 
Montenegro asked to be considered a neutral state: NATO is just bombing
it..
A missile hit a civilian house IN BULGARIA if you can imagine it...
6-10 BILLION DOLLARS (part of it is my taxes) wasted just to see some
expensive "invisible" fighter
being shot down by an old missile, expensive Apache helis crashing,
expensive hi-tech missiles hitting 
civilian trains and homes in Bulgaria...

Do you remember Bosnia?  Four years have passed... Do you really see the
"end of suffering" in Balkans as a result of this poorly planned and
executed "military" action?

The results of 40 days of stupid bombing games?  One word: DISASTER.
Show me ONLY ONE Albanian Kosovar who says that he was able to go ahead
with his life as usually as a result of NATO bombing...you'll have a
tough time finding him.

Sorin


James F Wadlow wrote:
> 
> it's okay that you appear to have a personal involvement with this issue.
> being against war is a GOOD thing.
> 
> letting somebody drive your aunt from her home and then shoot her in the back as she
> leaves, deserves a different response.
> 
> face one simple fact: the serbs have been agressors in that area for some time,
> chasing away those they could and killing those they could get away with.
> 
> were you so fired up about war in the area when the serbs were fighting without
> massive opposition?
> 
> take a neutral view and then tell me that the serbs are innocent in this, and
> undeserving of the actions being taken to end the suffering in the region.
> 
> Sorin wrote:
> 
> > James:
> >
> > Even NATO officials agree that only with air power the Serbs will not go out of
> > Kosovo.  Yet, they are not going to send ground troops.
> >
> > I just think that what happens there is stupid...and it gets worse...
> >
> > What are 6-10 BILLION DOLLARS spent for then?  Just to see how an "invisible"
> >
> > multi-million dollar stealth fighter is brought down by an old missile?  How
> > the multi-million dollar high-tech missiles can not be redirected before
> > hitting a civilian train? Or maybe how the same multi-million dollar missiles
> > hit civilian residential areas instead of empty military buildings?  Or maybe
> > watching Albanians killed by a missile coming from their "savior" ?
> >
> > Or deepening the hatred between those nations to the point where everything will
> > just blow up in Balkans? Worsening the economic situation for all the countries
> > in that area? Causing an ecological disaster from the chemical and oil plants
> > struck by NATO missiles?
> >
> > It's easy from here: it's like a NINTENDO game, isn't it? But when the NATO
> > troops go home after they get bored with the game (see Vietnam, Somalia, Korea,
> > etc) what is left there is DISASTER.  Not for Milosevici and his gang, but for
> > the regular folks.
> >
> > And the game's  prize is known to anybody who has some brain: Save the face of
> > NATO at any price - no matter how many  "colateral" killings occur...
> >
> > Sorin
> >
> > James F Wadlow wrote:
> >
> > > if it was nato that had started all of this you just might have a point.
> > >
> > > but as things are, it appears that the people in charge of serbia now are
> > > out for "living room" much like the nazi germany you are comparing nato to.
> > > and the documentation that the serbs are "cleansing" the area of non-serbs
> > > is established.
> > >
> > > would you prefer to get beat up by the bully over your lunch money everyday,
> > > or stand up and say no more?
> > >
> > > at what point do you feel that the non-serbs deserve the same consideration
> > > you appear to suggest only belongs to the poor suffering serbs, living in
> > > that house they stole from a muslim croat 5 years ago?
> > >
> > > Sorin Achim wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is a new "phase" in the NATO vs. Serbia undeclared war?  Or it is
> > > > the same "phase" which allowed
> > > > the bombing of a civilian train and some "insignificant" Albanian
> > > > refugees?
> > > >
> > > > "In Surdulica, a huge crater was all that remained of one house, where
> > > > locals said 16 people, mainly children and the elderly, had been
> > > > sheltering
> > > > in a basement when two NATO missiles hit. " from NYTimes.com  today
> > > >
> > > > "Despite Tuesday's deaths, the number of civilians killed by NATO air
> > > > raids
> > > > is dwarfed by the scale of the humanitarian crisis faced by ethnic
> > > > Albanian
> > > > refugees from Kosovo, Robertson said. "  from CNN today
> > > >
> > > > Excuse me? Is this some kind of Nazi excuse for unpardonable killings?
> > > >
> > > > This impotent organization called NATO is trying to fool the world it is
> > > > not a corpse...
> > > > Well, they showed us it can kill innocent civilians including children,
> > > > no matter they are Kosovars or Serbs...
> > > >
> > > > The "brave"  NATO men and women push "heroically" missile buttons while
> > > > drinking coffee...
> > > > And kill children by the dozen... Again, no matter they are Albanians or
> > > > Serbs...
> > > >
> > > > Well, that's civilized...
> > > >
> > > > And all this is going to cost the taxpayers around 6 BILLION dollars?

> To end the suffering in the region? Are you talkinf from your dreams?
> Get real...


Okay, instead of argue on your points I'd like to argue on what your
goals are.
What would you like to see happen? How would you go about reaching that
goal? How are thos emeans and ends superior to the current state of
affairs? Why do you think this thread belongs on pgh.forsale?