🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:39:09 GMT, Michael Flinn
<ctatraining@wwbgn.com> wrote:

>baltim wrote:
>> 
>> You should have spent a little less time on the english and a little
>> more time on the science........
>
>Why?  History has proven (as I shall simply recapitulate,
>using your post) that most scientists can't think their way
>out of a room with four doors.  

>They depend on others to get their money for them, to put
>their ideas into some kind of form for them, and to
>communicate with others for them. 

Not in the least. You obviously don't have daily contact with the
scientific world. Comunication is paramount to the successful relation
of ideas. Have you ever written a grant? Even a minor research
proposal? Scientist must master science as well as having a firm grasp
of oral and written comunication. Daily interaction with peers is a
crucial part of the scientific process. Research is not done on an
individual basis by some guy locked in a room by himself. It is very
much an effort accelerated by social interaction, spoken written or
otherwise. Science has been at the forefront ( just a bit behind the
military ) of using new comunication technologies. Though the
terminology they use may leave you out of the loop it does not imply
they are incapable of comunicating. 

>
>> My referral was to those dying on the streets of Baltimore due to
>> gunfire, not auto accidents. I'd have more chance to die in a cross
>> fire coming home from work than to contract and die from the West Nile
>> Virus. Welcome to Baltimore where the bullets are thicker than
>> mosquitos.
>
>that's this week, not next year.  Unfortunately for everyone,
>human beings think in words, not "science" and as many
>scientists have proven, most of them can't really think. 

Unfortunate indeed that humans do not think in terms of science. There
is no magic language of science, it's just a collection of words based
on facts used to describe situations. If more people thought in this
way we wouldn't suffer from such irrationalities as racism, and
anti-religous fervor. Or for that matter overblown viral fantasies.

>I.e., most  scientists have a thought horizon of about three
>weeks - or whenever the peer review will confirm or disprove
>their latest incorrect theory.   
>

You show your lack of knowledge about the inner workings of science
yet again. Scientists are among the most long range planners. It's a
combination of  long range general planning combined with short term
variability. Experiments can take days,weeks,even months of careful
planning adjusted by the latest findings, followed by an equally long
or longer execution time.

A scientist who waits for peer review to disprove his theory is no
scientist. The basic tenets of the scientific process involve trying
every conceivable vigorous method to disprove your theory. Only after
such trials can it be considered with merit. There are those
scientists who try to undercut the principles, which is unfortunate
for those who are legitimate in their efforts. Such things do happen
because after all scientists are still Human.

>> 
>> West Nile (WN) virus is a common arbovirosis in sub-Saharian Africa.
>> It has occasionally caused epidemics or epizootics in horses in
>> Mediterranean regions and southern Europe. The virus is transmitted to
>> humans by mosquitoes (primarily the Culex species) that are infected
>> by biting viremic birds. Infections in humans are usually
>> asymptomatic.
>
>Dude, there are lots of things over there that are not here. 
>Are you suggesting that those things should therefore be
>here?  As I did not say, but you are strongly suggesting, most
>scientists are morons.
>

Not at all  dud ,  the point which you obviously missed is this:
Humans have been exposed to the WNV for quite a long time, this is
nothing out of the ordinary. The long gone days of geographically
isolated diseases ended with the modern era of worldwide commercial
flight.

>> 
>> MY NOTE: that is, you never get sick.
>
>People here have already died. How come that happened when
>there is no infection and "you never get sick??"

Excuse my much too brief note on this article it should have been

MY NOTE: that is, you pratically never get sick.

     :::: Infections in humans are usually  asymptomatic.

>As I said, most scientists, outside the tunnel vision of their
>particular discipline, haven't got a brain in their heads.  

Strong deprecating words from a man who is in all likelyhood alive
today due the meanderings of some befuddled scientists. Too bad your
parents didn't skip your vaccinations as a kid, then you could be a
testament to the power of science. Next time you get sick tell your
Doc that you'll pass on the antibiotics.

>> 
>> Rom J Virol 1997 Jan-Dec;48(1-4):3-11
>>  Clinical manifestations in the West Nile virus outbreak.
>>    Ceausu E, Erscoiu S, Calistru P, Ispas D, et al..
>>  Dr. Victor Babes Clinic of Infectious and Tropical Diseases,
>> University of Medicine and Pharmacy, Bucharest.
>> 
>> During the summer of 1996 an unusual clustering of meningoencephalitis
>> cases was recorded in the Capital City, Bucharest, and in some
>> areasfrom South-East Romania............
>> This study included 251 patients with the diagnoses of West Nile acute
>> encephalitis (166 cases), acute meningitis (57 cases) and acute
>> febrile disease (33 cases). The patients' age ranged from 1 to 89
>> years (mean 51.1 years). .........
>> The fatality rate was 15.1% in acute encephalitis, 1.8% in acute
>> meningitis and 0% in the acute febrile disease.
>> 
>> MY NOTE: mean of 51.1 years places the majority of those infected into
>> an advanced age group. Fatalities of 38 out of 251 is considered a
>> high fatality rate for WNV ,that is, it's abnormal.
>> 
>> J Vector Ecol 1999 Jun;24(1):1-39
>>   Mosquito-borne viruses in western Europe: a review.
>>   Lundstrom JO
>>   Uppsala University, Department of Zoology, Sweden.
>> 
>> Several mosquito-borne arboviruses belonging to the genera Alphavirus,
>> Flavivirus, and Bunyavirus have been reported to occur in mosquitoes
>> and  to infect humans and other vertebrates in western Europe. These
>> zoonotic   viruses circulate in nature either in an Aedes-mammal,
>> Anopheles-mammal, or Culex-bird transmission cycle. Infected humans
>> normally do not contribute to the virus circulation. West Nile virus
>> (Flavivirus) caused an outbreak of fever, malaise, pain in eyes and
>> muscles, and headache and encephalitis in southern France during
>> 1962-1965, and an outbreak of encephalitis with a high case-fatality
>> rate  in Romania during 1996. West Nile virus has been isolated from
>> birds,  horses, and mosquitoes in Portugal, France, the former
>> Czechoslovakia,  and Romania. These data, together with reports of
>> antibodies to West  Nile virus in birds, domestic mammals, and humans
>> in several other countries, show virus activity in southern and
>> central Europe.
>> 
>> Hum Pathol 2000 May;31(5):527-31
>>  The pathology of human West Nile Virus infection.
>>   Sampson BA, Ambrosi C, Charlot A, Reiber K, Veress JF,
>>   Armbrustmacher V
>>  Office of Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York, NY 10016,
>> USA.
>> 
>> West Nile Virus (WNV) was identified by immunohistochemistry (IHC)
>>  and polymerase chain reaction (PCR) as the etiologic agent in 4
>>  encephalitis fatalities in New York City in the late summer of 1999.
>> The fatalities occurred in persons with a mean age of 81.5 years, each
>> of  whom had underlying medical problems.
>> 
>> MY NOTE: those who died where of an advanced age and suffered
>> concurrent medical problems besides WNV infection. Most fatalities
>> here and elsewhere in the world are among those already in poor
>> health.
>> 
>
>You seem incapable of understanding (here's the thinking thing
>again) that that doesn't matter.  Essentially, what you are
>saying is that those who are old or in poor health don't
>deserve to live.  Are you an East German or a Romanian?  Sorry
>for the slur.   Suppose my aunt gets sick of something she can
>can recover from but which, in the meantime, debilitates her. 
>Then she gets infected (being in poor health she deserves
>it??) with West Nile Fever and dies.  So she deserves it? 

I NEVER advocated the willful abandonment of those at risk in spite of
what your cinicism may read into it. The sick,poor,and elderly have
always been at the greatest risk from disease. WNV, flu or otherwise.
The elderly and sick in the countries in which the most people die
from WNV, also tend to be outdoors a great deal. Prevention among high
risk groups is the focus here. 

>
>Not only are most scientists incapable of extended thought,
>but you are a  dope, dude.
>
>Michael Flinn

Dud as I have grown tired of this pandering to your ego I will no
longer be responding to your assanine posts. I hope others who read
this thread take away from it more understanding of the WNV and
science in general than you have.

PS.  and please the next time someone recomends a vaccination or life
saving drug to you, decline and make sure to tell them the scientist
who created it didn't know what he was talking about.