🚀 go-pugleaf

fdp@netcom.com (Ciccio) wrote:
>malloy@cris.com (Sean Malloy) writes:
>>No such 'right' exists. 
>
>Yes it does. Both in the Calif. Const and the US const as applied to the
>states via the 14th amendment.

It depends upon the Constitution for its existence, therefore it is
not a _right_. A right exists regardless of whether the law permits
its exercise or not. A Jew in Auschwitz had exactly the same right to
liberty as a Jew in Chicago, regardless of the fact that the Nazis
deprived one of the ability to _exercise_ that right.

>>The prohibition against double jeopardy is a
>>privilege granted by the governing documents of this country. Contrast
>>the wording in the clauses prohibiting double jeopardy with that used
>>in the 2nd Amendment, and reference _Presser v. Illinois_, where the
>>US Supreme Court ruled that the right to keep and bear arms was not
>>granted by the Constitution, because that right did not rely on the
>>Constitution for its existence.
>
>The Court in Presser held that the 2nd amendment prohibition is not applied
>to the states via the 14th amendment. 

The court in _Presser_ held that, in the absence of any evidence
presented to the contrary, a sawed-off shotgun was not a weapon that
would be of utility to a militia. It is interesting to note that, when
the Supreme Court heard the case, neither Presser nor any legal
representative of his appeared, and the Court declined to permit a
number of interested parties to submit amicus curiae briefs pointing
out that the 'trench shotgun' -- a sawed-off shotgun in all but name
-- was an issue weapon to front-line troops during WWI.

>                                    It did not hold that there was a
>right to bear arms. 

Go back and read the full text of the decision. The declaration about
the right to keep and bear arms was not the primary focus of the
judgement, so it has not been widely disseminated.

And since you seem to be so fond of throwing up the 14th Amendment as
justification for your claims, I should point out to you that one of
the major arguments _against_ the amendment (as you can find if you
examine the Congressional Record) was that, if it passed, it would
mean that Negroes would be able to own firearms, as those rights whose
abridgement was prohibited by the 2nd Amendment would have to be
extended to them, and they feared the actions of an armed black
populace.

>                    As such, no right was ever attached to Presser. 

The right was determined to be inapplicable in the specific case of a
weapon without utility as a militia weapon -- i.e., a weapon that
would not, in practice, be issued to military personnel for use in
combat. However, elsewhere in the judgement, it was stated that the
right to keep and bear arms was a preexisting right, rather than one
granted by the Constitution.

>                                                                    Whereas 
>the right to avoid being put twice in jeopardy has attached to OJ.

See above; 

>>Perhaps we should make some sort of personal attack suggesting that,
>>by your repeated assertion that Nicole and Ron _are_ dead and will
>>always _remain_ dead, that you are demeaning the beliefs of the people
>>who believe in the Resurrection, and are therefore violating their
>>freedom of religion. It has about the same level of rationality as
>>your continued fixation.
>
>Sorry, I didn't intend to demean you beliefs.  OK here... OJ was found
>GUILTY and Nicole Brown-Simpson and Ron Goldman are playing golf in
>Florida.... There I hope you feel better now. 

By God, _someone_ should elect this person to Congress; he's denser
than neutronium. 

Get this through your head. I have no interest in whether Nicole and
Ron are alive, dead, or subsumed bodily into Heaven. I have no
interest in whether OJ did or did not kill either or both of them.
What I _am_ concerned about is your inability to let your fixation
with smacking people upside the face with "OJ was found _NOT GUILTY_!
Nothing you can do will change that! Ron and Nicole are _DEAD_!
Nothing you can do will change that!" even when they're not talking
about that.


-- 
Sean R. Malloy               | American Non Sequitur
    Naval Medical Center     |       Society
    San Diego, CA 92134-5000 |
malloy@cris.com              | "We may not make sense,
srmalloy@snd10.med.navy.mil  |  but we do like pizza"