🚀 go-pugleaf

Netnom <netnom@aol.com> wrote:
>:::From: jgreen@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu (James T. Green)
>
>>Sandy <sgrabhor@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu> wrote:
>>jgreen@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu commented:
>>
>>>* Says, "I don't have time to go out."
>>>  - Then you hear she somewhere with someone else at the time she told 
>>>you she was "busy."
>>
>>Ummmmm...let me see if I understand this one...she said she was "busy"
>>(and therefore unavailable to go out with you) and was seen out with
>>someone else.  Sounds like she was busy to me.  Your point? 
>
>:::I was refering to a women who SAYS she's "busy" due to something like
>:::homework, business, "too tired to go out" or some other non-dating
>:::reason. Then she goes out with someone else.  The point is that said
>:::hypothetical person is not being honest with me. She won't say she's
>got :::another date and instead makes up a story.  
>
>would you really, truly be comfortable with a women saying, 'sorry but i
>have a date with another guy"?    

It would depend on the situation.  If we had no committment to each 
other then I probably wouldn't mind.  If she as my wife I would probably 
mind :-(.

>if she said this, would you ask her out
>again?    (i.e., are you willing to date a woman who is also dating
>another man?   i'm talking about the initial stages of dating, before
>there is any sex or commitment.)  i think  most women fear that the answer
>for most men to these questions would be 'NO.'      

Again it would depend on the situation.  My asking her out again would
depend on a lot of factors.  I wouldn't expect someone I'd just met to
reveal their entire life to me.  Whether I'd ask again would depend in
part her hypothetical relationship to the other guy (i.e.  casual date vs.
near-engagement).  How often I saw her in life would be a factor.  If I
saw her once every few months at random intervals, I might not ask again. 
If I saw her daily, I might ask again the next weekend.  It would also
depend in part on how she "turned me down".  If she made it clear that she
would welcome a future opportunity to date, then I might again ask. 
Better yet, she might suggest an alternative time or even later ask me out
herself!  Also if I keep asking and get "other plans" more than a few
times I'll probably quit asking unless I have a good reason. 

>and how about you, do you tell women you're dating about how you've also
>been out on a date with another woman?  

It depends on the woman concerned.  There is at least one woman I "date" 
(for lack of a better term) whom I inform of other encounters.  When the
situation seems appropriate I tend to tell othr women I go out with about
other female friends.  Actually at the moment I tend to have a lot of
female friends without any specific committments. 

I'm speaking here in terms of her directly saying she is turning me 
down for a specific reason when the true reason is another guy.  

Frequency of this kind of thing would also be a big factor.  If this sort 
of thing was an infrequent event, it might not bother me much.  If I knew 
that "washing my hair" always means out dancing with _____, then I'd be 
more bothered.

>and why do i get the feeling that if a woman *did* tell you that she was
>out on a date with another man,, that you'd say *that* was a head game,
>too -- i.e., she's trying to make you jealous! 

Paranoid delusions?  Perhaps you had that happen to you in the past?

BTW, I have known women who date other guy in order to get their real 
"interest" jealous.  

Actually I'd be more comfortable being told that she had another date 
than being told she was going to be home cleaning the bathroom only to 
find out she went out with someone else instead.  It's a question of 
honesty and a lack of honest would prevent a relationship from going 
onward.  If I'd known her awhile and she still felt it was either 
"necessary" or desirable to keep her other life a secret, then I would 
not feel comfortable getting more committed to her.  I'm speaking in 
terms of long-term life committment (marriage, etc) rather than just 
friendship.  Marriage is to me a deep sharing of each other with trust 
and honesty.  Honest means telling the truth no matter what the truth is.

If she want's to consistently lie or keep her life hidden then she doesn't 
need me in her life and vice-versa.

>now i agree that an outright lie is no good.  personally, i will say that
>i'm 'busy' or 'have plans' or am 'seeing a friend' -- all of which are
>truthful, but keep my right to privacy *and* avoid hurting the guy's
>feelings unnecessarily (after all, i still may pick him as the person i
>want to get seriously  involved with).    
>if i haven't yet had sex with a
>man, i don't see that he has any *right* to know i'm dating someone else. 

Hmmm.  Is sex the standand for "right" to know?  I think it goes beyond 
that.  Just because I'd had sex with a woman doesn't mean she's entitled 
to access to my life and vice-versa.  

"Right to know" is a big standard.  Perhaps I may not have the "right" to
know whom a woman is dating, but I'd feel a bit less likely to want to
make a serious committment to her if my questions were consistently
answered either by "none of your business" or outright lies.  This would
be even more annoying if I were (and usually am) open about my life and
activities. 

Lying by omission is another thing.  If I don't ask and she doesn't tell 
and we have no committment, then it's not a lie.  If we are 
engaged/married/otherwise jointly committed and she dates/etc another guy 
and doesn't tell me it is a lie by omission.  (I'm not talking about 
spending time with a male friend, I'm talking about something 
sexual/romantic, etc).  

I think also being willing to volunteer to tell what you've been up to 
without prompting is important.  I think communications is very important 
in a relationship and for it to grow.  If I never get feedback except 
when I ask direct questions I'd question how much she really wants to 
open up to me.  

>  i'm curious if you think that he does....and if you apply the same
>standards to yourself and male friends that you are applying to women.

Yes.  All I've said above could be gender-inverted IMHO.  All I've said 
above I would also apply to myself, so nygh! ;-P


/~~(-: James Thomas Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~\ 
| Calvin: Do you believe in the devil.  You know, an all powerful |
|         being dedicated to the temptation and corruption of man?|
| Hobbes: I didn't think humans needed the help.                  |
\____________{-: http://www.calpoly.edu/~jgreen :-}_______________/