🚀 go-pugleaf

mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (Mark Crispin) writes:


First of all, let me state that I am still undecided on whether the death
penalty is justified.  I don't for a moment think that people like Dodd
ought to have lived (it's now after the fact), but I don't know if legal
killing is really legal.  In other words, how can we put truly, legally
state it's okay to put a convicted killer to death?  An eye for an eye?
Something to ponder . . . 

>In terms of the necessity of Dodd's death, one only needs to listen to what
>Dodd himself has said: there is no choice.  People such as Wesley Dodd and Ted
>Bundy can not be salvaged; they can never be made harmless enough to live in
>our society.

>We have a ghoulish idea of what constitutes ``mercy''.  Hanging kills by
>fracturing the neck, *not* strangulation, when done properly.  Death is
>instantaneous.  Yet, we prefer other means to render the incorrigible
>harmless.  We lock them in a cage to rot for decades, perhaps the rest of
>their lives, and live in fear of their escape.  I don't call being caged
>``living'' or ``merciful''.

No death row inmates, have, according to a report on NPR this morning, 
escaped from prisons in Oregon or Washington (where Dodd was hanged
earlier today).  In one respect, and hypothesizing that Dodd had killed
my two little boys, I'm not sure if hanging, to me, would justify a proper
punishment for Dodd.  For me, knowing Dodd was rotting in prison for the
rest of his life *might* make me feel more like he was receiving proper
punishment, but in looking at his execution, I see that one more 
child molester/murderer is NOT in society and one more prisoner is NOT
soaking up money in upkeep.  Also, no matter what could have happened
to Dodd, it still wouldn't bring back those he murdered.

>When we do execute them, we prefer the slow means with elaborate procedures.
>It is absurd that the opponents of the death penalty claim that being strapped
>on a hospital guerney with a needle pumping salt water into your veins for 15
>minutes before they hit with the pentothal is somehow ``merciful'' compared to
>something that kills in a fraction of a second.  Yet this grotesque and
>lengthy procedure is proferred as ``mercy''!

According to news reports, the trap door underneath Dodd was opened at 
12:05 AM, his body dropped down, there was a slight jerk in the rope, his
body turned slightly to the side, and doctors examined him at 12:09 AM,
proclaiming him dead at that time.  A news reporter who witnessed the 
hanging reported that initially, prior to viewing the hanging, he expected
the hanging to be a gruesome event.  After the hanging, in retrospect, he
and other viewers noted how *peaceful* it really seemed, and the reporter
stated that, "If I were going to be executed, that's the way I'd want to
go."

allen

Just two observations:

1.  There's plenty more individuals like Dodd in our society; conditions
    are creating more each day.  Expect more of the same, because treating
    symptoms never cures the disease.

2.  Conservatives, who have great trouble in trusting government to tax
    and distribute income (subject to the appropriate bureaucratic
    procedures), seem to have no trouble in trusting the government when it
    kills people (subject to the appropriate bureaucratic procedures).

    Curious.  Perhaps the Tooth Fairy comes and sprinkles magic Efficiency
    Dust (R) over the Corrections Department in her off hours.  Or maybe its
    the Easter Bunny who does that.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195

dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts) writes:

>    Curious.  Perhaps the Tooth Fairy comes and sprinkles magic Efficiency
>    Dust (R) over the Corrections Department in her off hours.  Or maybe its
>    the Easter Bunny who does that.

Okay, I'll admit it - this was flame bait.  But you get my point
- I simply can't trust the government (or anyone else that matter)
completely enough to give it that kind of life or death power.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195

In <1icf6gINNrve@shelley.u.washington.edu> dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts) writes:

>>    Curious.  Perhaps the Tooth Fairy comes and sprinkles magic Efficiency
>>    Dust (R) over the Corrections Department in her off hours.  Or maybe its
>>    the Easter Bunny who does that.

>Okay, I'll admit it - this was flame bait.  But you get my point
>- I simply can't trust the government (or anyone else that matter)
>completely enough to give it that kind of life or death power.

You and I have a basic philosophical difference of opinion here.

I look at goverment and see that guys like Charles Manson and Sirhan Sirhan
have parole hearings on a regular basis. I see guys like Hinckley get smart
lawyers and weasel their way out of very serious charges. In fact a while ago
one of the first two came close to going free until there was a large public
protest (it's been years so my recollection is hazy).

Even when people are put behind bars "without possibility of parole", there
are always people like Mike Dukakis who think they should get weekends off
for a little R & R.

I simply can't trust the government to keep these people locked up. The death
penalty solves the problem. And since it is applied in this country to only the
most heinous of crimes, I'm not very worried about it being misapplied. For
example, Dodd is the first person executed in Washington in 29.5 years. And
Washington isn't likely to do more than a few a year even if they can figure
out how to get past the ACLU and the liberal appeals courts.

So there. Counter flame bait.

zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk) writes:

>>Okay, I'll admit it - this was flame bait.  But you get my point
>>- I simply can't trust the government (or anyone else that matter)
>>completely enough to give it that kind of life or death power.

>You and I have a basic philosophical difference of opinion here.

> [edited]

>I simply can't trust the government to keep these people locked up. The death
>penalty solves the problem. And since it is applied in this country to only the
>most heinous of crimes, I'm not very worried about it being misapplied. For
>example, Dodd is the first person executed in Washington in 29.5 years. And
>Washington isn't likely to do more than a few a year even if they can figure
>out how to get past the ACLU and the liberal appeals courts.

So the Magic Efficency Dust is scattered more selectively than I
thought.  The Tooth Fairy apparently sprinkles liberal doses all
over the execution chamber while skipping over the Parole Board's
meeting room.

Oh.
-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195