🚀 go-pugleaf

Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:

>David Barts writes:
>> I simply can't trust the government
>> completely enough to give it that kind of life or death power.

WARNING:  The following sentences have been altered and may no longer reflect
the poster's views.

>How about an IRS of civil servants (US citizens like yourself), and a few
>zillion judges?

>Remember, it isn't the *government* that decides how much taxes you owe.

-or-
>How about a KGB of loyal workers like yourself and a few zillion Party
>members?

>Remember, it isn't the *government* that decides how you can live your life.

End of altered sentences.

>I'm glad to hear though that David Barts expresses distrust of the government.
>Perhaps he is now ready to take the next step, which is to realize that the
>government shouldn't be trusted with health care, or with social welfare, or
>with any of the zillion other things liberals want the government to take on.

If the gov't, say, taxes me more than the law allows, I can take
the case to court and get my money back (with interest).  (And if
I can't, then the law should definitely be changed so that I can
do so.) If the gov't wrongly kills me, I have yet to figure out a
way to get my life back.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195

In article <MS-C.726253721.377401575.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
/I'm glad to hear though that David Barts expresses distrust of the government.
/Perhaps he is now ready to take the next step, which is to realize that the
/government shouldn't be trusted with health care, or with social welfare, or
/with any of the zillion other things liberals want the government to take on.

I'd be happy to hand over my health care to the government, if they first prove
they can run a large program successfully, like our public school system. I
propose we wait and see them fix something simple like our public schools before
they tackle the complexities of health care.

In article <1554@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
-I'd be happy to hand over my health care to the government, if they first prove
-they can run a large program successfully, like our public school system. I
-propose we wait and see them fix something simple like our public schools before
-they tackle the complexities of health care.

I might point out that the overhead in the Medicaid program is currently
estimated at 4%.  The overhead for private insurance averages 7%.  I recall
the figures from Time magazine.

--
    Alan Jeddeloh      W:(503) 685-2991  H:(503) 292-9740
    Tektronix, Inc.; D/S 60-850; PO Box 1000; Wilsonville, OR 97070
    Alan.Jeddeloh@tek.com 
    You can put the children to bed, but you can't make them sleep!

In article <2440@shaman.wv.tek.com> alanj@endeavor18.tek.com (Alan Jeddeloh) writes:
>
>I might point out that the overhead in the Medicaid program is currently
>estimated at 4%.  The overhead for private insurance averages 7%.  I recall
>the figures from Time magazine.

According to figures I got from St. Charles hospital in Bend, and
verified by a friend who is a claims adjuster in Portland, private
insurance overhead runs anywhere from 25% to 40%! Yikes! No wonder
they fight to preserve the status quo. They're cutting a fat hog
at our expense!

Mike

In article <2440@shaman.wv.tek.com> alanj@endeavor18.tek.com (Alan Jeddeloh) writes:
>In article <1554@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>-I'd be happy to hand over my health care to the government, if they first prove
>-they can run a large program successfully, like our public school system. I
>-propose we wait and see them fix something simple like our public schools before
>-they tackle the complexities of health care.
>
>I might point out that the overhead in the Medicaid program is currently
>estimated at 4%.  The overhead for private insurance averages 7%.  I recall
>the figures from Time magazine.
>

I haven't seen a paper yet today, but last I heard, the public (K-12)
schools were still administered locally.

In <4155@master.CNA.TEK.COM> mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes:

:In article <2440@shaman.wv.tek.com> alanj@endeavor18.tek.com (Alan Jeddeloh) writes:
:>
:>I might point out that the overhead in the Medicaid program is currently
:>estimated at 4%.  The overhead for private insurance averages 7%.  I recall
:>the figures from Time magazine.

:According to figures I got from St. Charles hospital in Bend, and
:verified by a friend who is a claims adjuster in Portland, private
:insurance overhead runs anywhere from 25% to 40%! Yikes! No wonder
:they fight to preserve the status quo. They're cutting a fat hog
:at our expense!

This is all a bogus argument, because ALL expenses of an
insurance company except for the money paid to providers, and
sales commissions is overhead.

One problem is that our medial ``insurance'' has evolved so that
it isn't insurance at all, but a method to pay regular medical
expenses (sort of like buying food insurance to pay your bills at
the grocery store).  When I sold health insurance in (1965-1966)
there were Major Medical policies that were designed to cover
unexpected medical expenses.  The whole idea of insurance is to
cover unusual events, not the day-to-day normal expenses.  This
way the cost of the unusual events is spread out over a larger
group of people so the cost is lower per person.  Using medical
``insurance'' to pay normal bills is ridiculous since it costs at
least $40 to process every claim (that's why there are
deductibles on auto insurance -- to elimnate the small claims).

King County Medical just refused to renew two employees in our
group plan because they had the misfortune to get sick!  This
then made our number of eligible employees fewer than required to
qualify for group coverage so we had to switch insurance
companies requiring new waiting periods and all the garbage about
pre-existing conditions.

This really pisses me off because I pay out much more in premiums
each year than I've incurred in medical expenses in my life!  The
reason I pay the premiums it so that I have coverage if I really
need it.  Now I find out this isn't going to happen.

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?

In article <1ii31eINNa7a@shelley.u.washington.edu> monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan ) writes:
/I haven't seen a paper yet today, but last I heard, the public (K-12)
/schools were still administered locally.

They are financed by Washington State, their agenda is set by the State,
the salaries are set by the State, Judith ($11,000 desk set) Billings is
the *State* Superintendant of schools, etc. If you agree that WA State is
"locally", then we are in agreement.