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In <C0E7pF.9yv@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> sjm2458@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (The Steve-meister) writes:

>o  The party-like atmosphere with people singing and rejoycing about how
>   *great* it is to put someone to death.

If I were in Walla Walla last night, I think I would have simply felt quiet
satisfaction. Some people literally shot off fireworks, and that seems to be
in quite poor taste. We should treat all people with dignity, even while
executing them. (A strange sentence, that last, isn't it?)

On the other hand, try this analogy. You have a virulent cancer in your body.
At great pain and expense you manage to excise this cancer. Is this not cause
for celebration? Dodd was a cancer on society.

>o  That society demands that the killer be held responsible, yet also
>   shrinks away from the consequences of its collective action. Most
>   of the people I have spoken with and seen on television who support 
>   capital punishment neither want to see the results when their wishes 
>   come true, nor would they "pull the lever" themselves.

I would have no problem doing either of these things. But I think the fact that
most people DO have a problem is both good and bad. Good because it means that
people are very aware of how serious a thing capital punishment is. Bad because
people often assume that others think the same way they do. They don't
understand that monsters like Dodd will happen, because they can't conceive
of doing the same things themselves.

>Though not apparently a problem (yet) in Washington, I recall two
>cases from Texas within the last 5 years: Randall Adams, of "Thin Blue 
>Line" fame, and another man who was featured on 60 Minutes.  These men 
>both appear to be INNOCENT but ended up on death row because prosecutors,
>in their zeal to make someone (anyone?) pay the price for killing of
>police officers, were able to find witnesses to say what needed to be
>said for a death verdict in exchange for having charges dropped or reduced. 

This business of allowing convicts to make up stories in exchange for lighter
sentences is horrible. Often the claim is by a cellmate. He says the suspect
"confessed" to him, for some reason.

It is a jury's obligation in cases like this to examine evidence VERY
carefully.

But then again, how many people reading this post take their jury duty
responsibilites seriously? How many others have weaseled out of jury duty
by having their company write a letter telling the court how important
they are?

>Putting an innocent man in jail is bad, but putting an *innocent* man 
>to death is SO bad, in my mind, that we cannot take the risk even if
>there is the slightest doubt.

Yes. In Oregon the jury must first find the defendent guilty, then in a
separate phase decide whether or not to impose the death penalty. Jurors
need to be very careful. But then again, nothing we have come up with so
far is better than the current jury system.

In <C0E7pF.9yv@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> sjm2458@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (The Steve-meister) writes:

>While I can appreciate and even agree with the arguments put
>forth by death penalty proponents, there are several things 
>I find very disturbing about it all, and here they are in no 
>particular order.

>o  The ritualistic aspect of it all- the military handbook, the boiled
>   and waxed hemp, the hood, the last words, the sillhouette.

Using a decent reference manual and preparing the rope properly
hardly strike me as ritualistic, any more than using a cookbook
and sifting the flour when baking a cake.  Playing it by ear,
skipping the manual and using the wrong rope, can make for really
botched hangings that would certainly be ruled inhumane.  Either
you'll strangle the victim slowly, or you'll rip his head off.
Both have been known to happen when proper procedures weren't
followed.

The hood and the silhouette strike me as attempts to
depersonalise the person hanging on the end of the rope.  Sort of
like the blindfold for someone before a firing squad.  It also
preserves some dignity for the person if he can't hold his
composure at the very end.  It is strange how this varies with
different forms of execution -- a long, slow death process like
lethal injection seems to be done in the open, ditto gas
chambers.  Hanging and firing squads are concealed.  How about
electrocution?

Last words may be an old ritual, but I'd hate to deprive even
someone like Dodd of one last opportunity to apologize, confess,
or curse the world for killing an innocent man.
-- 
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 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
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sjm2458@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (The Steve-meister) writes:

> [edited]
>Additionally, I don't think that there is any deterrent effect as long
>as capital punishment is carried on behind closed doors, "sanitized"
>for the public.

If you look at the statistics for things that are capital offenses in
the US, and compare them with the civilized first world countries, you
will find out that you are right.

And when England publicly executed its criminals, more pockets were
picked at the public hangings of pickpockets than at any other time!

Works equally lousy as a deterrent in either case.

However, I share your contempt for those people who support capital
punishment and yet are too childish and immature to want to view
the consequences of what they advocate.
-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195

zeke@fasttech.com (Bohdan Tashchuk) writes:

>In <C0E7pF.9yv@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> sjm2458@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (The Steve-meister) writes:

>>o  The party-like atmosphere with people singing and rejoycing about how
>>   *great* it is to put someone to death.

>If I were in Walla Walla last night, I think I would have simply felt quiet
>satisfaction. Some people literally shot off fireworks, and that seems to be
>in quite poor taste. We should treat all people with dignity, even while
>executing them. (A strange sentence, that last, isn't it?)

The bOregonian had an editorial on this, criticizing the people who were
there celebrating Dodd's death.  The celebration was tacky and ghoulish,
but it should also be recognized for what it is: one more sign that the 
general public is fed up with the way our government works.

People are tired of repeat offenders being let loose only to rob, maim,
or kill other innocent victims.  One of the most shocking things about
this case was that someone who was clearly guilty was put to death 
relatively quickly.

If you were to ask the "man on the street", she would say that our 
judicial system was not working.  Some would say that the fix is to 
stiffen sentences, others to say that more money should be spent in 
programs to help repeat offenders or to prevent people from getting 
entangled in the justice system in the first place.  But hardly
anyone thinks the justice system --- or any government system --- is 
working very well.

Ross Perot is a sign of this.  Measure 5 is a sign of this.  And it's
about time that the government start listening.  

--
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