🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <32374FE1.734E@mlink.net>, Elie Charest <turgon@mlink.net> writes:
>E. Charters wrote:
>> 
>> FRENCH GOVERNMENT SERVICES ARE WIDELY AVAILBALE IN SCHOOLS (SEPARATE
>
>(Blah blah blah. No need to shout, man, I didn't read half of your post
>because of it.)
>
>>I WOULD NOT LET THOSE NAZIS IN THE
>> BLOC REPRESENT MY RIGHTS IF MY NAME WAS JOAN OF ARC..
>> 
>
>Well, all I can say is this. I lived for two years in Toronto, the
>metropolis of this supposedly bilingual country. I never spoke french,
>and I would not have lived in French if I had wanted to. Paradoxically,
>I lived for a year as an anglophone in Montreal (lived with anglophones,
>studied in english, worked in a Westmount boutique). I never had a
>problem, only when I called back home in Quebec (my vocabulary
>seemed...distant).
>
Very interesting....but largely irrevelant to the discussion at hand.  If you
cannot live in French in Toronto, it's likely because the number of
Francophones in that city is *very* small- outnumbered likely by the Chinese,
Vietnamese, East Indians, Italians and many other groups.  I'd submit to you
that you give that some though....and recognize one very important point: that
the reason Toronto is so much like this is due, not to an abrasive or false
national government....but rather because market conditions cannot support the
duality.  In Montreal, where roughly 30 or 40 percent of the population lives
and works in English, and where there are a large number of Anglophones who are
very wealthy, the reality is that the market conditions can support the dualism
concept.  However in Toronto, you have many French language schools, bilingual
provincial and federal government signs, and one can receive the transcripts of
provincial meetings in French.  As well, Ontario has a Francophone provincial
channel- TFO.  Oddly enough, it kept it running despite the fact that
viewership at any given time was really REALLY low.

I'd be interested in seeing how Francophones fare in Toronto vs. how
Anglophones fare in, say, Jonquiere.

>What we have here are two visions: one in the realm of the "official"
>word, where Anglophones cannot put signs in English only and Francos
>outside of Quebec can supposedly live in French. The other is the actual
>real world, where it's a LOT easier to live in english in Montreal than
>it is to live in French in the greater part of Anglophone Canada. This,

It all depends- it's not easy to live in English in Montreal IF the provincial
government is going to punish the English speaking peoples for exercising
apparant rights.  Perhaps because, in the greater part of Anglophone Canada,
Francophones don't even really number a sizable minority.  Cities that do have
large Francophone populations that I know of- Sudbury, North Bay, Ottawa and
Northern New Brunswick, actually do very well.  My brother in law's mother
speaks only French (they are Acadiens), but she fares very well in Northern New
Brunswick.

>of course, from personal experience - though I know of other who've
>shared similar experience.
>
>Care to argue?

Sure....but first you must look at the logic of what you're saying.  The
implication that Federal services aren't always bilingual is a fair one to
make- but let's look at some of the realities here as well.  Here in
Peterborough, they had an individual who was bilingual working at the large
post office- and in his 25 years in Peterborough, he did not meet one
Francophone customer/visitor, etc...