🚀 go-pugleaf

In <343C4E5B.2B070F33@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> Alan Davis
<adavis@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> writes: 
>
>
>
>Carol Ann Hemingway wrote:
>
>> In <343BD1C1.BE6D6213@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> Alan Davis
>> <adavis@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> writes:
>> >Carol Ann Hemingway wrote:
>> >> In <61eodj$g8m$1@Mars.mcs.net> karl@MCS.COM (Karl Denninger)
writes:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >(edit)
>> >
>> >>             --------
>> >>       The use of Jesus Christ to draw a crowd isn't a new tactic.
>> >>       Of course, more ministers will be getting involved in this
>> >>       conversation, especially minsters who have been preaching
>> >>       to egalitarian couples and their families.  Yes, I agree
>> >>       with you that this movement is more political than
>> >>         religious.
>> >>             --------------------
>> >This is  an agreement of the uninformed who think they know more
than> the>people who make their own statements of
>> >their objectives.  Lefty refuses to talk to a
>> >PKer, or his wife, or their kids-where the
>> >measure of any benefit or detriment has
>> >meaning.  It has no meaning, Lefty, in this
>> >fantasy world of yours where you perform
>> >character assassination of people whom
>> >you've never met nor even spoken to.
>>
>>             -----------
>>             I have not sullied the "character" of anyone.  Surely
>>             you're not refering to my refusal to speak (which is my
>>             right) to a person who claims her authority is thru her
>>             husband?
>
>Nope, only that your refusal speaks to your
>>choice to remain ignorant.  You did once post something
>to the effect "I guess you would have to check with
>the wives."

            -----------
            That's true.  I was refering to the discovery
            of their reasons for wanting an inferior position.
            I suspect it has more to do with financial security
            and the protection of  family and patriarchal
            social status than it does with anything else,
            but if I wanted to discover WHY they choose in-
            feriority, talking to them would make sence;  I
            don't have much interest in why they choose it.
            I only have interest in the rules of the game and
            what that might mean to women who choose to be
            equals.
            ---------------------------

>
>>               I would have no business speaking about PK
>>             to a person who didn't have the authority to talk about
>>             it.  Isn't it better to go to the source rather than
>>            get information second hand?  After all, those who aren't
>>             Promise Keepers really don't have the right to speak for
>>             those who are.
>>             -------------------
>
>Pkers have disagreed with you ad nauseum,
>>you post fantasies about what you *think*
>they are doing, rather than what they *say*
>and *do*.

            -----------
            They are perfectly within their rights to disagree.
            I have no problem with that.  What they say and
            do has, in itself, placed women in a position of
            subordination.  To borrow a phrase from Covey,
            it's in their "mission statement".  :]
            -------------------------------
>
>> >> >>I see a>>bunch of men who mean well, but are not going about it
in>> >> the right way.
>> >>             --------------
>> >>            What makes you think they "mean well"; perhaps most of
>> >>             these men are simply dissatisfied with their role in
>> >>             life.  Perhaps they long for the kinds of adulation
>> >>             their fathers had ....as soldiers, as patriarchs.
>> >>             ---------------------------
>> >>
>> >Your honor!  I object! Calls for speculation!
>> >(as do all your posts on this subject, Left)
>>
>> In your opinion.
>
>You've posted no facts, only your guesses.
>
>> >> >>They are leaving too many people out by depending on
Christianity as> their>>source.
>> >>
>> >>             -----------
>> >>             That's true.  My wise old grandmammy used to tell me;
>> >>      "whenever all men get together, women are oppressed, because
>> >>           then there's no one left to preside over".  :]
>> >>             ---------------------
>> >>
>> >May I go out on a limb here,and guess that your grandmammy said
>> >no such thing?  May I suggest as well that>> >the above is just a
Leftyism based on >fear and sexism?  May I also suggest that
> >a bunch of men put together the Bill of Rights you hold dear?  May I
>> also suggest that> >your bigotry against 'all men' prevents you
>> >from seeing the good in the world?
>>
>>             -----------
>>             Indeed you may!  That's your right of free speech that
>>             a marvelous group of men drafted in an effort to make
>>             sure that INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS (rather than family rights)
>>             were maintained, and to create a separation between
>>             church and state (rather than having one sect rule, as
>>             had happened in England).
>
>Separation of church and state appears nowhere in
>the Constitution.  It first appeared in a letter from Thomas
>Jefferson to a New England Episcopal bishop.  The Supreme
>Court talks about the 'establishment' clause, not the 'separation'
>clause.

            ----------
            I'm glad you know where to find it.  Now what?
            -----------
>
>>            So, you see, wonderful men
>>           do indeed exist.  In fact, my number one chosen role
>>           model is a dead black wonderful man....Thurgood Marshall.
>>             ------------------------------
>
>Good for you.  Mine is Mother Theresa.
>
>> >Pity.
>>             ---------
>>             There's no need to pity me;  I'm quite content, and
>>             joyful in my approach to life.
>>             -------------
>
>I'm glad for that.  The pity is your outlook
>>is confrontational, rather than cooperative.
>
>> >> >(edit)

                ---------
                Would you expect a free black man in Africa expect
                to cooperate with those who wanted to enslave his
                friends and relatives.  Or, would you expect con-
                frontation?
                --------------------------
>
>
>
>> >The only reason I care about what you
>> >think about other people's problems, is
>> >that your such a prolific poster of
>> >putrid perjurous propaganda, which must be
>> >shown the light of day.
>>
>>             -----------
>>                 Gee, I would have thought a Christian would have
>>                 been more concerned about my soul burning in hell.
>>                 Well, at least you're now being honest.
>
>Hopefully, I won't ever be dishonest.
>
>>              What happened
>>              to all that pity you had, just a paragraph ago.  Easy
>>              come....easy go.
>
>Like the wind, indeed.
>
>> > You are also forgetting that there is
>> >no such thing as 'full memberships' in PK;
>> >no rights, no privileges, only promises
>> >and duties that amazingly try to correct
>> >the problematic male behavior feminists
>> >have labeled them with for years.  Lefty's
>> >trouble is, this correction is not done on
>> >*HER* terms, i.e. in court.
>>
>>                 ------------
>>                 There's no need to go to court for this one.  The
>>                 PK message is being heard loud and clear, and just
>>               for what it is.....the last death rattle of patriarchy
>>                clutching and grasping for air.  As for problematic
>>                male behavior, I haven't personally witnessed any...
>>                there's not one man in my life I have any need to
>>                change;  they're just great the way they are;  of
>>                course, none of them have any desire for me to
>>                 submit; after all, they are my friends.
>>             ------------------------
>
>'This one' being the correction of men's sexistbehavior; a position on
>which most feminists>and PK take a stand.  PK-through loving
>correction, feminists, through fines and jail>terms.


            -----------
            Does that mean that "loving correction" is going to
            replace jailterms for men who abuse, beat and/or
            kill their wives?   I mean, they may have been justified
            if their wives refuse to submit.

                Lefty
>