🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <61gkhq$mkv@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>,
-Davis,R.H. <ronaldd@ihgp3.ih.lucent.com> wrote:
>
>the more i see of this thread the more convinced i am that it is
>somewhat hopeless to debate with karl denninger.  i also wondered
>where he was getting the word "submit" (i.e. the husband is to...)
>out of the passage that you cited.  

If you believe in the story of Jesus Christ, you would agree that he
"submitted" to the will of the Church when he allowed himself to be 
nailed to two pieces of wood, would you not?

I don't know if you can find a greater submission than volunteering your 
own life on principle.  And again, if you believe that Jesus was in fact 
God incarnate, then he could have *easily* stopped the people who were
doing this to him -- if he didn't want to submit.

So not only did he submit, he did so voluntarily.

> yet, based upon his later comments
>it seems that the gospel is unambigous, and "clear" - which is the
>problem with religious use of the bible: everyone claims that it is
>clear but so many people seem to interpret it different ways.

I've not said that.

I've said that the incessant complaints about the PKers and how they are out
to "enslave" women, based on ONE interpretation of a particular portion of
the Bible, is misleading at best.

I've further said that the PKers *appear* to be interpreting that passage 
as I have had it explained to me, and as I believe it to be intended and
actually written upon my own reading of it.

I admit to being fallible in that interpretation, because I'm human.  I do
not presume to have all of those answers.  But I can use my own eyes, and 
those of the media which has tried like the dickens to paint these folks 
as abusive towards women.  The point is that the media has FAILED to support 
that contention, and has *ADMITTED* not only their original investigation
of the matter at the behest of those who believed this to be true AND
also reported *TRUTHFULLY* that in the opinion of the people who would be
the ones abused not only is the accusation false its laughable.

Again, pick up TIME or Newsweek and read it for yourself.

>such is the case when you try to get too literal with the bible...

This is not about being literal with the Bible.

Its about people trying to make false claims about an organization which,
when investigated, turn out to be without merit, and those same people's
subsequent *refusal* to own up to the fact that their own prejudices 
failed to bear fruit upon closer scrutiny.

I don't doubt that people have taken that passage in the Bible to mean all
kinds of horrible and nasty things.  I don't doubt that there are at least a
thousand more "interpretations" of various portions of that book which have
been used to justify even worse deeds, including genocide.

But that doesn't change the fact that *in this particular instance*, nobody
has been able to substantiate the charge which Patricia Ireland and others
have levelled -- that the PKers are interested in or engaged in enslaving 
women.

--
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