🚀 go-pugleaf

Carol Ann Hemingway wrote:

> In <344A8970.4556FC4F@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> Alan Davis
> <adavis@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> writes:
> >Carol Ann Hemingway wrote:
> >> In <3447CF3B.E5E714C9@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> Alan Davis
> >> <adavis@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> writes:
> >> >Daniel B. Holzman wrote:
> >> >> In article <3446E897.70081BCB@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM>,
> >> >> Alan Davis  <adavis@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> wrote:


<snip>

> >>             ---------
> >>           Leadership that is only male, precludes female leadership;
> >>          how hard is it to understand that?  Last time I looked, it
> >>             was still possible to have a female president/vice.
> >>             ----------------------------------------



> >Leadership is gender neutral.  Wise people become leaders,
> >>or know when to follow good leadership.



>             ---------
>             The question then becomes one of whether or not WOMEN
>             in the PK mindset can ever become "wise people".
>             ---------------

The answer is, "of course."  Why do you pose this question?
The question in my mind becomes, why you
automatically question the motives of
people who are just trying to be better
husbands and fathers.

<snip>

> >>             --------------
> >>             Leadership is a new code word for male supremacy?
> >>             ---------------



> >You're still making up nonsense.



>                 --------------
>                 Are all the leaders in PK male?  That's not
>                 too difficult, is it?
>                 ------------

All NOW leaders are women.
All leaders of your investment group are women.
All Girl Scout leaders are women.
NOT all Boy Scout leaders are men.
Not all PK leaders are men.
The point is not the gender, but
the goals.  You have questioned,
even made up, what you think their
goals are.


> >Leadership is gender neutral.  Wise people become leaders,
> >>or know when to follow good leadership--regardless of gender.



>             -----------
>             So how many female group leaders are now installed
>             in PK?
>             --------

How many females can help PK
men with their number one sin, that
of sexual indiscretion?  How many women
are GLAD that their husband is being told
to shape up by other men?

> >> >His opinion.



> >>             --------
> >>             Yes, the opinion of ONE PKer....only one.  :]  That
> >>             is what started the wearing of veils in Iran, and the
> >>             methods used by Taliban.
> >>             ---------



> >Bunk.  Strawman argument.  Can you think of
> >no other argument than to try to link those who
> >disagreee with you to criminals?  Have you run out of
> >knowledgable things to say?



>                ---------
>                 Those who support the Taliban are NOT criminals; they
>                 are LEADERS....male leaders who refuse to allow women
>                 to compete in the workplace or school on an equal level
>                 with men.  Whatever makes you think they are criminals?
>                 -----------------------

The accusations of criminal behavior made in
these threads.  Besides, which PK person said they
"refuse to allow women to compete in the workplace
or school on an equal level with men?"

> >> >Before you condemn it, read it.
> >> >Who are these "more aggressive persuasion" feminists,
> >> >note he didn't say *all* feminists.



> >>             ----------
> >>            Why would he have to?  The idea that rebellious women can
> >>            be "cured" by a good **** has been expressed since
> >>            the dawn of time.  This is hardly anything NEW.  The
> >>            only difference is that the **** is spirtual rather
> >>            than physical.
> >>             ---------------------



> >Please tone down your language.



>             --------
>             No.

Please?

> >There are gentlemen and ladies present.



>             --------
>             If they are adults, they will have to get used to the
>             fact that there are all kinds of words in the world;
>             in that regard, the grown-up thing to do would be to
>             get on with it.

Or ostracize those who engage in sexual harassment and vulgarity.

>                                   If you're a child you can avoid all
>             sorts of language and simply pretend language you don't
>             like doesn't exist...in the same sense that you can
>             pretend PK is about equality.
>             ---------------------------

Or, I can tell you that you can probably
think of something more intelligent to
say than your vulgarity. Your vulgar
language will only lessen the effect of
any good points you might have

> >>             ----------
> >>             Is it the PK stance that you must follow your wife's
> >>             spiritual leadership in the self-same way she must
> >>            follow yours, or are roles assigned.  (I already know
> >              the answer, but I'm not sure you're willing to admit
> >>             it).  Equality is not anarchy.
> >>             ===================



> >Stop guessing what I might or might not say.



> >Your stereotyping will only lessen any good points
> >you might have.  I've told you that there is no
> >"mandate" for one to follow another.  The only mandate
> >is to follow the wisdom of God.  Both men and women have
> >been called saints.  Wisdom is gender neutral, though in
> >several books of the Bible it is referred to as "she."



>             ----------
>             I have asked you a direct question.  You have failed
>             to answer.
>             -------------

Perhaps I'll quote it again (from 10 lines above):

"I've told you that there is no
"mandate" for one to follow another.
The only mandate is to follow the
wisdom of God."

If this is insufficient, please comment,
but don't make up a claim that it was not
answered.

> >>             ----------
> >>             The priest gets the duty of service and all the RIGHTS
> >>             that accompany the title.  Trying to portray it only
> >>             as duty, is doing a disservice to those who want the
> >>             REST OF THE STORY.



> >>             ------------



> >Or to those who might make it up?



> >What RIGHTS do priests get?



>                ---------
>                 The right to be the spiritual leader in their homes,
>                 at the exclusion of women in the same role.  You still
>                 haven't answered my question.

What exclusion?  And how do you
account for "those who would be great in
God's kingdom must be the servants of all?"

> >I suggest, none other than the right
> >to choose to follow God.  What other
> >rights do you think that they have that
> >frighten you?



>                 -----------
>                 I need not be frightened about a group of men who
>                 want the right to lord over women;

You haven't proven this, only accused
people of it.  People who only want to be better husbands
and fathers.

>                              that's nothing
>                 new;  it's as old as the bogeyman.  You still haven't
>                 answered my question.

Answered, and quoted again.

"I've told you that there is no
"mandate" for one to follow another.
The only mandate is to follow the
wisdom of God."

<snip>

> >>             ---------
> >>             How is it possible to be "overlyinfluenced" by those
> >>             who comprise over 1/2 of humanity.  Shouldn't that
> >>             huge group have just over 1/2 of the "say" in how
> >>             we conduct ourselves.
> >>             -----------------



> >So are you saying that all women are feminists?



>             --------
>             No.  I'm saying that all women have the right to
>             equal protection.
>             -------------

So what does "influence" have to do
with that?  Are you mandating AA
for "influence?"   And what equal
protection do any US citizens not
have?

> >> >What are you afraid of here?



>             -------------
>          Nothing.  Empty "phallacy" only makes me angry...not scared.
>             ---------------

Lighten up.  There's nothing to be angry about.

<snip>

> >I disagree with him.  He has committed the same order
> >>of misinterpretation as NOW saying
> >that women have the right to make false
> >rape allegations.



>                 ----------
>                 If that is the case, why aren't you supporting total
>                 inclusion of women in the process?  You still haven't
>                 answered my question.
>                 ============

Answered above.

Which process are you talking about?

Free assembly?


> >> >That man made a mistake.Of the many men who went to DC,>you would
> not>> have to search very long to find a sinner with an incomplete or
> >> >false idea or philosophy.  Do you now>take this one mistaken fellow
> >> and apply>it to millions?



> >>             ---------
> >>             In the same way that a few Muslims make women wear
> >>             veils, having nothing to do with the listed precepts
> >>             of the religion, PK has their own agenda which includes
> >>             the submission of women.  We don't buy what you're
> >>             trying to sell, a white-wash of bigotry.
> >>
> >>                 Lefty



> >Please stop with the comparisons of those who hold ideas with which you
> do>not agree>to criminals.  Your stereotyping lessens>the strength of
> any other argument you might>make.



>             ----------
>             To what court must members of the Taliban report viz a viz
>             their criminal culpability?  BTW, you still haven't
>             answered my question.  Perhaps you realize you can't.
>
>                 Lefty

Answered above.

Prove that PK has as it's goal the submission of women.

You can't.

Prove that PK says man submits to God,
and woman to man.

You haven't.

Good bye, Lefty.

This thread is beyond repair.

--
Al Davis ***** A Displaced Cub Fan in DC ***** adavis@seas.gwu.edu
I like two teams:  The Cubs and whoever is playing the Mets
Vote Santo into the Hall of Fame!
Let's play two!