🚀 go-pugleaf

Carol Ann Hemingway wrote:

> In <3447CF3B.E5E714C9@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> Alan Davis
> <adavis@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> writes:
> >Daniel B. Holzman wrote:
> >> In article <3446E897.70081BCB@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM>,
> >> Alan Davis  <adavis@seas.gwu.edu.NOSPAM> wrote:



> >> >> No, sorry, PK theory has the man submitting to god and the wife
> >> >> submitting to her man.



> >> >You have bought into Lefty's myth.  PK has no such "theory."
> >> >How long have you been studying PK?
> >> >What are your references?
> >> >I've offered quotes, references, and people
> >> >to talk to to refute this.
> >>
> >> I need look no further than their own writings:
> >
> >You need to look further into these writings.  Whatyou have presented
> includes too>much "....">You present this "leadership" as a henious
> >aspect of interpersonal relationships, which it>is not.  If leadership
> is a poor thing, let's start at the>top and get  rid of the President,
> Vice-President,>Speaker of the House, etc.
>
>             ---------
>             Leadership that is only male, precludes female leadership;
>             how hard is it to understand that?  Last time I looked, it
>             was still possible to have a female president/vice.
>             ----------------------------------------

Leadership is gender neutral.  Wise people become leaders,

or know when to follow good leadership.

> >Mr. Evans takes on male complacency, and incites
> >them to *spiritual* leadership.  This is something you
> >have no concept of, since you used those "........"s
> >to take out parts you don't understand.
>
>             --------------
>             Leadership is a new code word for male supremacy?
>             ---------------

You're still making up nonsense.

Leadership is gender neutral.  Wise people become leaders,

or know when to follow good leadership--regardless of gender.

> >> ". . . sit down with your wife and say something like this, "Honey,
> I've> made a terrible mistake. .  . I gave up leading this family, and
> I> forced you to take my place. Now I must reclaim that role.".
> > . . I'm not suggesting you ask for your role back, I'm urging you to
> >> take it back . . . there can be no compromise here. If you're going
> to> lead, you must lead . . . Treat the lady gently and lovingly. But
> lead!"
>
>             ----------
> >>
> >>          -- Tony Evans, co-editor of Seven Promises
> >> of a Promise Keeper in "Spiritual Purity" chapter of
> >> Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper, p. 79-80.
> >>
> >> ". . . I believe that feminists of the more aggressive persuasion
> are>> frustrated women unable to find the proper male leadership. If a
> woman>> were receiving the right kind of love and attention and
> leadership, she>> would not want to be liberated from that."
> >>
> >>          -- Tony Evans
> >
> >His opinion.
>
>             --------
>             Yes, the opinion of ONE PKer....only one.  :]  That
>             is what started the wearing of veils in Iran, and the
>             methods used by Taliban.
>             ---------

Bunk.  Strawman argument.  Can you think of

no other argument than to try to link those who
disagreee with you to criminals?  Have you run out of
knowledgable things to say?

> >Before you condemn it, read it.
> >Who are these "more aggressive persuasion" feminists,
> >note he didn't say *all* feminists.
>
>             ----------
>             Why would he have to?  The idea that rebellious women can
>             be "cured" by a good **** has been expressed since
>             the dawn of time.  This is hardly anything NEW.  The
>             only difference is that the **** is spirtual rather
>             than physical.
>             ---------------------

Please tone down your language.

There are gentlemen and ladies present.

Besides, the conversation was with respect to
defining who these aggressive feminists are.
I'm sure not all women are "aggressive feminists."

> >What do you have against love, attention, and leadership?
> >I do not feel oppressed, myself, when I follow the leadership
> >of our Boy Scout Troop Scoutmaster.  Nor do I feel
> >oppressed when I follow my wife's leadership.  Are you for
> >anarchy?
>
>             ----------
>             Is it the PK stance that you must follow your wife's
>             spiritual leadership in the self-same way she must
>             follow yours, or are roles assigned.  (I already know

>             the answer, but I'm not sure you're willing to admit
>             it).  Equality is not anarchy.
>             ===================

Stop guessing what I might or might not say.

Your stereotyping will only lessen any good points
you might have.  I've told you that there is no
"mandate" for one to follow another.  The only mandate
is to follow the wisdom of God.  Both men and women have
been called saints.  Wisdom is gender neutral, though in
several books of the Bible it is referred to as "she."

> >> "Don't you understand mister, you are royalty and God has chosen you
> to be>> the priest of your home?"
> >>
> >>          -- Tony Evans, co-editor of Seven Promises of a Promise
> Keeper in
> >> The Progressive, August 1996.
> >
> >A priest is a servant.  What's your problem?
>
>             ----------
>             The priest gets the duty of service and all the RIGHTS
>             that accompany the title.  Trying to portray it only
>             as duty, is doing a disservice to those who want the
>             REST OF THE STORY.
>
>             ------------

Or to those who might make it up?

What RIGHTS do priests get?

I suggest, none other than the right
to choose to follow God.  What other
rights do you think that they have that
frighten you?

> >> "The demise of our community and culture is the fault of sissified
> men who>> have been overly influenced by women."
> >>
> >>          -- Tony Evans, co-editor of Seven Promises
> >> of a Promise Keeper in The Progressive, August 1996.
> >
> >An opinion, it has some truth in it.
>
>             ---------
>             How is it possible to be "overlyinfluenced" by those
>             who comprise over 1/2 of humanity.  Shouldn't that
>             huge group have just over 1/2 of the "say" in how
>             we conduct ourselves.
>             -----------------

So are you saying that all women are feminists?

> >What are you afraid of here?
> >
> >> There was also the op-ed in the CHicago /Trib/ a few weeks ago.  It
> was>> written by a female minister who had a parishoner who became a
> PKer.  He>> stopped coming to Church.  When she asked him about it, he
> told her she>> was no longer his pastor, because the PKers had told him
> that the proper>> order of things is "men lead, women follow."
>
>             -------
>             YUP

I disagree with him.  He has committed the same order

of misinterpretation as NOW saying
that women have the right to make false
rape allegations.

> >That man made a mistake.Of the many men who went to DC,>you would not
> have to search very long to find a sinner with an incomplete or
> >false idea or philosophy.  Do you now>take this one mistaken fellow
> and apply>it to millions?
>
>             ---------
>             In the same way that a few Muslims make women wear
>             veils, having nothing to do with the listed precepts
>             of the religion, PK has their own agenda which includes
>             the submission of women.  We don't buy what you're
>             trying to sell, a white-wash of bigotry.
>
>                 Lefty

Please stop with the comparisons of those whohold ideas with which you do
not agree
to criminals.  Your stereotyping lessens
the strength of any other argument you might
make.


--
Al Davis ***** A Displaced Cub Fan in DC ***** adavis@seas.gwu.edu
I like two teams:  The Cubs and whoever is playing the Mets
Vote Santo into the Hall of Fame!
Let's play two!