🚀 go-pugleaf

This sounds a lot like a particularly nasty reaction to a fire coral or other 
hydroid.  It's probably a bit late to be seeking medical attention but better 
late than never I guess...  The 'poison' is administered by stinging cells 
in the same way as jellyfish stings.  First aid treatment for jellyfish 
includes flooding the area with vinegar (NOT methanol) for at least 3 minutes 
but that's primarily to inactivate unfired cells and is probably ineffective 
against fire coral as they don't leave a long tentacle stuck to the skin.  I 
find calamine works quite well to sooth small stings, haven't tried hot water 
but it might work if applied soon after the sting - once tissue damage has 
been done it won't help - this is not a simple inflammation that's going to go 
away quickly.

The best preventative measure is good buoyancy control and no contact with the 
reef but everyone makes mistakes from time to time.

Andrew L. Jenks writes:

>Read something a while ago about such a thing.  Forget where...Rodales?
>It was a back-page story.  Anyway, from what I recall, yes, there is a
>poison of some sort in the coral.  Exercising after contact forces the
>barbs deeper into the muscle, where they can fester and cause intense
>pain, swelling, and eventually help atrophy the muscle.  I think soaking
>the afflicted body part in hot water was the recommended cure.

>Again, this is from memory.  Anybody else recall the specifics?

>the Dust (elpolvo@gnn.com) wrote:
>: This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in 
>: Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she 
>: brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
>: light and she thought nothing of it until later
>: after returning to the Hotel she experienced a great
>: deal of swelling and pain.  The pain continued for 
>: many days.  Now (Feb. 25) the pain is mostly gone
>: but where the contact occured on her thigh, she 
>: has a dent in the quadracep muscle.

>: Has this happened to anyone else out there? 
>: Is there something poison in coral?
>: Should she seek medical assistance?

>: Any information regarding this phenomenon would be
>: appreciated.  Thanks in advance.  This is not a 
>: newsgroup that I normally read so please send any
>: reply via e-mail to:

>: elpolvo@gnn.com



>--
>Andrew L. Jenks
>Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
>uucp:     ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!vaps5aj
>Internet: vaps5aj@prism.gatech.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Burnett - bbur@wpo.nerc.ac.uk       |  Not so much the slow
Scottish Association for Marine Science  |  lane as the hard shoulder...
P.O. Box 3, Oban, Argyll PA34 4AD, UK    |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read something a while ago about such a thing.  Forget where...Rodales?
It was a back-page story.  Anyway, from what I recall, yes, there is a
poison of some sort in the coral.  Exercising after contact forces the
barbs deeper into the muscle, where they can fester and cause intense
pain, swelling, and eventually help atrophy the muscle.  I think soaking
the afflicted body part in hot water was the recommended cure.

Again, this is from memory.  Anybody else recall the specifics?

the Dust (elpolvo@gnn.com) wrote:
: This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in 
: Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she 
: brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
: light and she thought nothing of it until later
: after returning to the Hotel she experienced a great
: deal of swelling and pain.  The pain continued for 
: many days.  Now (Feb. 25) the pain is mostly gone
: but where the contact occured on her thigh, she 
: has a dent in the quadracep muscle.

: Has this happened to anyone else out there? 
: Is there something poison in coral?
: Should she seek medical assistance?

: Any information regarding this phenomenon would be
: appreciated.  Thanks in advance.  This is not a 
: newsgroup that I normally read so please send any
: reply via e-mail to:

: elpolvo@gnn.com



--
Andrew L. Jenks
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!vaps5aj
Internet: vaps5aj@prism.gatech.edu

...and I can't go.

May 5 through May 19, 1996.   Spend 13 days on board the Cuan Law diving and 
sightseeing Antigua, Guadeloupe, Dominica, Montserrat, Nevis, St. Kitts, Saba, 
St. Martin!
Spacious two-person air-conditioned state rooms with private bath.
All food and drinks (including alcohol) included.

$2,700 per person - not including airfare.

Call Joe at 512/266-1101 or 512/339-6765 for details.

In article <4grjpl$8f@news-e2b.gnn.com>, elpolvo@gnn.com writes:
> This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in 
> Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she 
> brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
> light and she thought nothing of it until later
> after returning to the Hotel she experienced a great
> deal of swelling and pain.  The pain continued for 
> many days.  Now (Feb. 25) the pain is mostly gone
> but where the contact occured on her thigh, she 
> has a dent in the quadracep muscle.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else out there? 
> Is there something poison in coral?
> Should she seek medical assistance?
> 
> Any information regarding this phenomenon would be
> appreciated.  Thanks in advance.  This is not a 
> newsgroup that I normally read so please send any
> reply via e-mail to:

sounds like she brushed against some fire coral, which
has nematocysts (stinging cells) of a particularly nasty variety.

immediate treatment is to wash with salt (not fresh!) water and
then cover with a paste made of adolph's meat tenderizer (breaks
down the protiens).  if you don't treat it right away, the
best thing is over-the-counter cortisone cream, applied repeatedly
until the pain & swelling are gone.

c/

--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chuck Narad -- diver/adventurer/engineer                         |
|                                                                  |
|   "The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for |
|   our wits to grow sharper."                                     |
|                   -- Eden Phillpotts                             |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Medical abortion, should you find it necessary, may be legally   |
| obtained at a professional family planning clinic.  Consult your |
| phone book.                                                      |
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| This .sig file, which explains how you can obtain an abortion,   |
| is in direct violation of Section 1462 of Title 18, amended, of  |
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| 1996.  Consult your local representative or senator.             |                            
--------------------------------------------------------------------

the Dust wrote:
> 
> This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in
> Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she
> brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
><snip>
> 
> Any information regarding this phenomenon would be
> appreciated.  Thanks in advance.  This is not a
> newsgroup that I normally read so please send any
> reply via e-mail to:
> 
> elpolvo@gnn.com

The surfers here call it "reef rash" and I think I've heard it is a 
bacteria on and/or in the coral. All I know from first hand experience is 
if you do not attend to it with anti-biotics it leaves an obvious scar. 
I've got little ones on my hands and feet. I have a bad habit of banging 
my feet on the boat, getting little cuts, not paying attention till days 
later. It leaves a little scar and then an indentation in the skin. 
Wierd I know but I'm sitting here looking at my feet laughing. Please 
laugh with me, not at me. It's late and I start talking to myself after 
midnight.

There is a homepage for the Waikiki Aquarium and the folks there probally 
have a more tecnical answer. Ask around for Ken Yates in an e-mail and 
maybe get more info.

I've got a link at    http://www.aloha.com/~bdh/bookmark.htm
scroll down to Marine Life links and find the aquarium.
-- 
James W. Hudgens
Captain/Instructor-PADI&SSI
bdh@aloha.com
http://www.aloha.com/~bdh

the Dust (elpolvo@gnn.com) wrote:
: This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in 
: Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she 
: brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
: light and she thought nothing of it until later
: after returning to the Hotel she experienced a great
: deal of swelling and pain.  The pain continued for 
: many days.  Now (Feb. 25) the pain is mostly gone
: but where the contact occured on her thigh, she 
: has a dent in the quadracep muscle.

: Has this happened to anyone else out there? 
: Is there something poison in coral?
: Should she seek medical assistance?

: Any information regarding this phenomenon would be
: appreciated.  Thanks in advance.  This is not a 
: newsgroup that I normally read so please send any
: reply via e-mail to:

: elpolvo@gnn.com

I'm not an expert and we need more info on colour, shape and size of the 
coral to help you.

But in general: Yes, there are poisonous corals as well as other poisonous 
creatures in the sea (jellyfish f.ex.). Several species has their poison 
placed in little "arrowheads" that will enter the skin. Rubbing etc. will 
only make them go deaper.

It's too late now but for the future: Take a sharp knife and use it just like 
an old fashioned shaving knife. You can then scrape off the arrowheads from 
the skin. It works reasonably.

As for now go to the library and get a picture and the latin name for the 
coral. Then take the name and your sister to the doctor.

-- 
:-)

Thomas Degel
---------------------
E-mail: td@iir.dk

IIR Danmark; Nygade 6, 3.; 1164 Kobenhavn K; Denmark
Phone: (+45) 33 33 01 00; (+45) 33 33 05 00
This may or may not reflect the opinon of IIR Danmark

elpolvo@gnn.com (the Dust) wrote:
>This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in 
>Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she 
>brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
>light and she thought nothing of it until later
>after returning to the Hotel she experienced a great
>deal of swelling and pain.  The pain continued for 
>many days.  Now (Feb. 25) the pain is mostly gone
>but where the contact occured on her thigh, she 
>has a dent in the quadracep muscle.
>
>Has this happened to anyone else out there? 
>Is there something poison in coral?
>Should she seek medical assistance?
>
>Any information regarding this phenomenon would be
>appreciated.  Thanks in advance.  This is not a 
>newsgroup that I normally read so please send any
>reply via e-mail to:
>
>elpolvo@gnn.com
>
>
Fire coral has a venomous sting, although I don't know if that's what 
caused your sister's injury. There are plenty of other stinging organisms 
on a coral reef.
James

In article <4grjpl$8f@news-e2b.gnn.com>, the Dust <elpolvo@gnn.com> wrote:
>This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in 
>Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she 
>brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
>light and she thought nothing of it until later
>after returning to the Hotel she experienced a great
>deal of swelling and pain.  The pain continued for 
>many days.  Now (Feb. 25) the pain is mostly gone
>but where the contact occured on her thigh, she 
>has a dent in the quadracep muscle.

Yes, if it bothers her, she should see a doctor.

James W. Hudgens wrote:
> The surfers here call it "reef rash" and I think I've heard it is a
> bacteria on and/or in the coral.

Actually, it's how they catch their food; "nematocysts", little poison spears they shoot out when 
they are touched by something. (Which under normal circumstances, is usually a potential meal.)

Why are we touching corals, anyway? They REALLY hate that...

In <4hoc8c$fbq@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> droog@korova.com (Droog) writes: 
>
                    <snip>

    
>Anyway, apparently, there's a type of brownish coral called 'fire
coral' that 
        
Actually, it's mustard yellow

>does just that - concentrates the poisons of the microorganisms it
captures 
>(like all good filter feeders) into a defense mechanism that produces
a really 
>serious rash-type burn if contacted.  

Does cause "burns" or "stings", but it produces these venoms itself. 
Fire coral is not a filter feeder, but uses nematocysts (stinging
cells) loaded with this venom to capture small organisms (zooplankton).

>
>I've never been lucky enough to dive near any corals, fire or
otherwise, so 
>this is all hearsay, albeit from a reasonably reliable source.
>
>
>
>-- 
>*************************************************************
>*   Roger D. Houston           *    University of Texas     *
>*     "Droog"                  *         at Austin          *
>*   rogerh@mail.utexas.edu     * Dept. of Computer Science  *
>*************************************************************
> These are only my opinions.  UT can get its own opinions, if
>    it can get the bond passed.
>

Always happy to help out a sip!   ;>

Safe Diving!
Rusty
PADI DM-56416
Texas A&M class of '85

In article <4hoc8c$fbq@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, droog@korova.com (Droog) says:
>
>>In article <4grjpl$8f@news-e2b.gnn.com>, the Dust <elpolvo@gnn.com> wrote:
>>>This past Christmas Holiday, my sister vacationed in 
>>>Maui, Hawaii. When snorkeling near her hotel she 
>>>brushed her leg against some coral.  The contact was
>>>light and she thought nothing of it until later
>>>after returning to the Hotel she experienced a great
>>>deal of swelling and pain.  The pain continued for 
>>>many days.  Now (Feb. 25) the pain is mostly gone
>>>but where the contact occured on her thigh, she 
>>>has a dent in the quadracep muscle.
>
>
Fire coral shoot nematocysts (stinging cells) into foreign objects which
come into contact with it.  She sounds like she had quit a reaction, 
she may have been possibly allergic to the sting.  I unfortunately was 
stung in Cayman (my own fault).  It hurt quite a bit for about a minute
than I felt nothing more.  I didn't have any swelling or any kind of mark on 
my body.  Perhaps it wasn't the coral?  Or perhaps she had a severe reaction
to the coral?

Sean.

In article <4hsusi$3bv@alpha.pcix.com>, dcoveney <lsi@CapeCod.net> writes:
> 	I've been windsurfing in the Carrebean for years, and every time I scrape
> myself, the scratches fester and in spite of Peroxide and Biodine, fails to heal
> until I leave, whereupon it heals quickly. I have concluded the Coral must 
> discharge' or Parret Fish leave particles in the water which retard healing.

more likely the wounds are never getting dry enough to heal.

c/


--------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chuck Narad -- diver/adventurer/engineer                         |
|                                                                  |
|   "The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for |
|   our wits to grow sharper."                                     |
|                   -- Eden Phillpotts                             |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Medical abortion, should you find it necessary, may be legally   |
| obtained at a professional family planning clinic.  Consult your |
| phone book.                                                      |
|                                                                  |
| This .sig file, which explains how you can obtain an abortion,   |
| is in direct violation of Section 1462 of Title 18, amended, of  |
| Section 230(e)2 of the Communications Act of 1934, amended in    |
| 1996.  Consult your local representative or senator.             |                            
--------------------------------------------------------------------

nstn1955@fox.nstn.ca (Joseph Mckenzie) wrote:

>Fire coral shoot nematocysts (stinging cells) into foreign objects which
>come into contact with it.  She sounds like she had quit a reaction, 
>she may have been possibly allergic to the sting. 

While we're on this subject, nobody has mentioned the possibility this
might also have been a sponge like Neofibularia nolitangere.
Sometimes known as 'Touch-me-not sponge' or 'Brown Death' this large
(2 feet diameter) doughnut-shaped sponge puts out spicules that
contain a nerve poison.  I'm told the man who did the research on it
died a terrible death.  Peterson's fild guide says "If touched, causes
severe rash,swollen fingertips or severe itching over whole body."  It
is very common in Aruba and Bonaire.

John Roberts