🚀 go-pugleaf

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:03:21 +0300, Fella <nosp@m.here> wrote:

>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:58:40 +0300, Fella <nosp@m.here> wrote:
>> 
>> Most modern R&D in amps and CD players is
>> biased towards cost reduction. That's why my 'Chinky cheapy' Pioneer
>> DV-575A will play any kind of silver disc while providing sound
>> quality identical to that of a SOTA 'audiophile brand' CD player.
>
>
>I've tried to dissect this little statement of yours up there. Just made 
>no sense to me.

What a surprise..............

> So modern r&d amps (what's an "r&d" amp? Research and 
>development amp? What is that?)

Did you miss the word 'in'?

> and CD players *"is"* biased towards 
>cost reduction and this gives your pioneer dvd player exactly the same 
>sound as a naim, for instance.. Hmm... How does that work out?

Actually, it's probably better than a Naim, as Naim generally tweak
their geriatric crap to have the Naim 'house' sound. Sensible people
like Meridian leave the sound as neutral as possible.

However, how it works out is that all decently designed gear sounds
the same, so the only way to improve it is to make it (a) play more
kinds of silver disc, and (b) cost less to manufacture. Not exactly
rocket science, but clearly way beyond your ability to comprehend.

>> It
>> also plays movies!
>
>Well hardy har har! Congrats there old boy!

>> If you've really been there and done that, you'll know that they
>> really do work.
>
>If your sense of "work" means that they curtain enough detail, where 
>real consequential differences lie, plus the "test" situation, and make 
>everything sound the same, then yes, they do work.

You're a cretin, and a liar, but we knew that. How does a basic DBT,
which involves only swapping cables, 'curtain detail'?

>>>This *is* about envy with you low-income nerd types, isn't it? You 
>>>imagine your yamaha metallic sound $120 receiver as sounding the same as 
>>>some $5000 BAT integrated amp, yes? That's how you are able to consume 
>>>that edgy, glaringly digital, transistor sound you get from your piece 
>>>of shit gear.
>> 
>> 
>> You really are a prat, aren't you?
>
>Pace, rhythm and timing? Yes, when done correctly, always a good thing.

And it's done correctly by any decent gear. Martin Colloms is
demented.........

>> See my page here: http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/
>
>Wouv! I am impressed.
>
>But wait a sec.. You say:
>
>"Interconnects are home-brewed unshielded twisted pair made from 0.6mm 
>solid-core Teflon-coated silver-clad OFHC copper (just standard MIL-spec 
>hookup wire), while connectors are either Neutrik  XLR or Deltron 
>Teflon/alloy RCA jacks."
>
>What's that? Solid core silver clad-OFHC-copper-teflon-bla-bla bla??! 
>WIRE IS WIRE!! As dumbmika would put it.

That's right - standard MIL-spec hookup wire in this case. BTW, thanks
for paying for it! :-)

>And what? "Sony CDP715E � a curious player, not a �flagship� by any 
>means, but it brought together all Sony�s best CD chips in a way not 
>really improved" bla bla..
>
>So just *how* does a CD player become "flagship" ? That yours is not a 
>flagship? Don't they all sound the same?

Nope, Sony always had their ES range, their flagships with massively
excessive (but beautifully built) casework. Didn't make the players
*sound* any better, of course.........

>No but seriously, you should think more about speaker placement, your 
>"rack" seems to get in the way. :)

Ah, you didn't note the text where I noted that they're pulled five
feet out from the wall for 'serious' listening? Typical inattention to
detail on your part, Fella...................

> You should get yourself a decent 
>rack, too, btw.

Why? What difference would that make? 

>  And.. Yes, you owe yourself this audition:
>
>http://www.bladelius.com/freja.html

BWAHAHAHA! It doesn't exactly have SOTA specs, so it's unlikely to
prove any kind of challenge to my Pioneer. I have 3dB more dynamic
range and less than half the distortion (not that it really matters at
these absurdly low levels!). I grant you that it might sound
*different*, it it's a typical 'high end' garbage design, but it sure
won't sound *better*. Dammit, the user manual doesn't even contain a
proper technical spec sheet, and it blathers on about 'burn-in', fer
krissakes!

Tell me, why would there be *any* reason to suppose that some
back-street operation in Sweden could produce better sound quality
than the the massive R&D labs of Pioneer, Sony, Philips et al? Pretty
casework, sure, but better *sound* quality? Remember, they're using
the same Sony or Philips transport mech, the same servo and error
correction electronics as everone else, and if they're only using one
Burr-Brown DAC, then they're not exactly at the cutting edge of
technology, are they?

>Just get this (though dunno if you _can_ where you live, wherever that 
>might be, who cares! if not get a Linn univesal player) and hook it up. 
>You *will* hear an abundance of all kinds of differences... ALL for the 
>better! Don't mess with any DBT sessions to verify this though. JUST 
>TRUST YOUR FRIGGIN EARS FERCHRISSAKES! 

A DBT is the ultimate test of your *ears*, asshole. It's only clowns
like you who need to *see* which player is connected, to 'hear' all
those wonderful 'differences' you're bleating about. 

>Do you do a DBT when you eat some 
>better tasting meal at a gourmet restaurant? NO! You sit there and eat it.

Sure - but not if I'm *comparing* restaurants.

>> Piece of shit gear? I don't think so................
>
>So why don't you use some $200 yamaha integrated amp (or whatever the 
>fuck they might cost arny!) as an amp? Level matched and fixed volume 
>and all that they all sound the same? What's with that "exotic" amp? 
>"krell" ?? Ain't never heard of no "kkrelll" in circuitcity, haha! (or 
>wherever the fuck you should be getting your electronics from)..

You can't drive 84dB/w/m 3-ohm speakers with a Yamaha, not without it
glowing cherry-red! OTOH, I did once publish the result of DBTs from
about ten years ago, where I did indeed use a Yamaha AX-570 in
comparison with the Krell, and it was almost identical, just a trace
of brightness in the treble gave it away. My Audiolab 8000P however
does sound just like the Krell - but gets way too hot after a half
hour of heavy rock or Wagner.................

Note that (despite the Krell being rated at 50 watts into 8 ohms) all
three of the above will put out around 190 watts into a 4-ohm load,
but the Yamaha has the least current reserves and the Krell maintains
its rated output doubling right down to 400 watts *continuous* into a
1 ohm load.

-- 

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering