🚀 go-pugleaf

"Michael Black" <et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message 
news:fdosbj$ap4$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
> (SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com) writes:
>> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>>
>> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.
>>
> ANd this is a nonsense post.
>
> You've cross-posted it to
>  rec.audio.tech
>  rec.audio.car
>  rec.radio.shortwave
>  ba.broadcast
>
> Realistically they have nothing in common.  Even the last two
> are a stretch.
>
> The question has no relevance in the first place, because
> there's no context to the point of the question, and once
> you cross-post there is nothing at all in common.
>
> You might as well have asked "What did you have for breakfast"
> because it would have been just as off-topic to all four
> newsgroups, and be just been as nonsensical to the groups
> as your actual question.
>
>   Michael
>

     And I agree, that's why I have a nonsense answer. Age has nothing to do 
with it. I've met young folk who act really mature and older people who act 
like little kids.

John

On Sep 30, 2:32 pm, Eric F. Richards <efri...@dim.com> wrote:
> "Karl Uppiano" <karl.uppi...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Modulation and information theory are not "passé".
>
> Don't confuse Eduardo, er, "SFTV," he has all the answers.
>
> Oh, "SFTV," 44, computer science and mathematics, and an engineer.
> And I use the term with pride and defend against those who misuse it.
>
> Those would include YOU.  You are the most childlike 35 year old I've
> run across.  I know 21 year olds with more maturity.

EFR - I still think SFTV is "Radium". ~ RHF
 .

On Sep 30, 12:10 pm, et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
>  (SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com) writes:
> > I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
> > I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.
>
> ANd this is a nonsense post.
>
> You've cross-posted it to
>   rec.audio.tech
>   rec.audio.car
>   rec.radio.shortwave
>   ba.broadcast
>
> Realistically they have nothing in common.  Even the last two
> are a stretch.
>
> The question has no relevance in the first place, because
> there's no context to the point of the question, and once
> you cross-post there is nothing at all in common.
>
> You might as well have asked "What did you have for breakfast"
> because it would have been just as off-topic to all four
> newsgroups, and be just been as nonsensical to the groups
> as your actual question.
>
>    Michael

Hear Hear Michael Black Hear Hear !

spam with green eggs i am ~ RHF
 .

Phil Kane wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:35:59 GMT, nospam@nospam.com (Don Pearce)
> wrote:
>
> >>> >> He can't be a competent engineer if he doesn't understand synchronous
> >>> >> detection, which may predate single side  band, pre 1952.
>
> He can't be a competent engineer if he doesn't understand three-phase
> power generation and transmission as well.  Learning all that was
> necessary before we could learn electronics in every major engineering
> school.

That was optional at Penn State.  I never took it.


> >>I didn't say it was.  I said ANALOG theory was.  Digital of course
> >>still has relevance.
> >>
> >But every digital device is full of analogue devices. Not only that,
> >but they run so quickly that you need to be highly competent in
> >distributed circuit theory and microwave design techniques.

That is true.  I was rather surprised on my last project to discover
myself modeling analog signals, instead of digital.  Oh well.  Times
change.



> Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --

Doubtful.  Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
staring at a computer.  I've been saving every penny, such that I will
be able to retire at 40-45.  Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).

Engineering is dull.

RHF wrote:
> On Sep 30, 2:32 pm, Eric F. Richards <efri...@dim.com> wrote:
> >
> > Don't confuse Eduardo, er, "SFTV," he has all the answers.
> > Oh, "SFTV," 44, computer science and mathematics, and an engineer.
> > And I use the term with pride and defend against those who misuse it.
> > Those would include YOU.  You are the most childlike 35 year old I've
> > run across.  I know 21 year olds with more maturity.
>
> EFR - I still think SFTV is "Radium". ~ RHF


That's nice.

I find it ironic you call me "childish" in the same paragraph where
you insult me.  A true child is someone who lacks manners.

John Slade wrote:
>
>      And I agree, that's why I have a nonsense answer. Age has nothing to do
> with it. I've met young folk who act really mature and older people who act
> like little kids.



I'm seeing a lot of those "older people acting like kids" right here
on this group (insulting one another).

On Sep 30, 11:42 am, SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

I'm 48.  Engineering/Construction Project Manager.  Female.  :)

<SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Karl Uppiano" wrote:
>> Modulation and information theory are not "pass�".

> I didn't say it was.  I said ANALOG theory was.
> Digital of course still has relevance.

LOL!  Who do you think developed the devices,
circuits, and layouts for sll those "digital" devices ?
I work with hundreds of *real analog* engineers who
design and build the most popular digital circuits on
the planet.  Chances are excellent that the CPU in
the computer you are reading this on was made in
one of the fabs a few hundred feet from my office.

SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
> 
> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.
> 

54
http://www.neopax.com/

-- 
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London

In article <_YSLi.140728$Mu5.12445@newsfe15.phx>,
 "The Shadow" <Cranston@CobaltClub.com> wrote:

> <SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:1191177766.532265.183800@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
> >
> > I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.
> >
> 
> 76 years old, retired Hewlett-Packard Technical Writer, AA Degree 
> Electronics, Amateur Extra since 1977, US Navy Korean War - Aviation 
> Electronics Tech AT1
> 
> SWL frequently
> 
> The Old Shadow do 

Now that's cool. I've probably read stuff you have written.

-- 
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Sep 30, 11:42 am, SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

58 years old, female, retired studio technician (or "operator," if you
prefer).  A.A. degree, one year of study in electronic theory and an
FCC general operator's license (formerly first phone).  Still work
occasionally as a freelance audio mixer. Moderate a classic movies
newsgroup and read voraciously in my spare time.

I was born in the summer of my twenty-seventh year,

On Oct 1, 12:54 am, Steven <thisjukeboxplays33...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I was born in the summer of my twenty-seventh year,

and I left yesterday behind me.

"Steven" <thisjukeboxplays33rpm@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1191221694.235286.16550@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>I was born in the summer of my twenty-seventh year,
>

Going home to a place you've never been before?

"Steven" <thisjukeboxplays33rpm@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1191221764.934348.24590@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 1, 12:54 am, Steven <thisjukeboxplays33...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I was born in the summer of my twenty-seventh year,
>
> and I left yesterday behind me.
>

Might say you were born again?

I am 59 and am a "service technician" (a fancy name for grease monkey) 
that works on Honda motorcycles.

SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com wrote:

> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
> 
> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.
> 

Telamon wrote:
>  SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Phil Kane wrote:
>
> > > Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --
> >
> > Doubtful.  Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
> > staring at a computer.  I've been saving every penny, such that I will
> > be able to retire at 40-45.  Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).
> >
> > Engineering is dull.
>
> Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
> marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
> Eduardo.


I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying.  For example when I
was in college I worked for Sears.  They instructed me to "sell
extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
thought it was un-necessary.

Sears didn't like me very much
- what with telling the truth.

> I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
> your posts indicate.

If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
about the subject of electronics/electrical devices.  For example:

- Do you know what VHDL is?
- How about a state machine?
- Synchronous DDR?
- PCI Express?
- Flip-flop?
- What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
- What are constraints?

This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
what it's about.  And that's fine.  Because I don't expect one person
to know everything there is to know about EE.

On Oct 1, 3:23 am, Bruce Farley <afakeaddre...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I am 59 and am a "service technician" (a fancy name for grease monkey)
> that works on Honda motorcycles.


If you read the thread, you'll see some other very arrogant & very
condescending people who think folks like you are inferior.  They
don't consider what you do to be "real" work.  (see below).

 I am not one of those.   I wish I had half the talent you had, when
it comes to hands-on work.  (I don't even know how to solder a basic
connection; I can do it, but it's very sloppy.)



On Sep 30, 1:55 pm, nos...@nospam.com (Don Pearce)
>
>  I'd like to say I'm an engineer, but the word is debased.....
> The chap who comes to look at my busted washing machine and announce
> it is beyond repair - he is an engineer too, as is the bloke who sits
> at a mixing desk with not the slightest clue as to what he is doing,
> and moves a fader while trying to look cool.
>
> I don't feel that inclined to call myself an engineer these days.

<SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com> wrote ...
>  Bruce Farley  wrote:
>> I am 59 and am a "service technician" (a fancy name for 
>> grease monkey) that works on Honda motorcycles.
> 
> If you read the thread, you'll see some other very arrogant & very
> condescending people who think folks like you are inferior.  They
> don't consider what you do to be "real" work.  (see below).
> 
> I am not one of those.   I wish I had half the talent you had, when
> it comes to hands-on work.  (I don't even know how to solder a basic
> connection; I can do it, but it's very sloppy.)

Note that plumbers, motorcycle mechanics, cabinetmakers,
etc. are the kinds of jobs that cannot be "outsourced" to
foreign shores. Just one of the advantages of doing "real"
(physical) work vs. virtual (mental) work.  :-)

There's likely an instructional video on Youtube on how to
solder.  OTOH, with the prevalence of SMD, horse-shoeing
may be a more practical skill.  :-)

SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
> 
> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

Lurking on-air personalities who want to know what the
intelligentsia are saying about them.  We are the
intelligentsia.  We're from outer space and France.

--

It's your lucky day!  Listeners to this station have been
selected to receive a free bottle of Omega-3 Fish Oil.

On Oct 1, 1:46 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com> wrote:
> "Steven" <thisjukeboxplays33...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1191221764.934348.24590@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Oct 1, 12:54 am, Steven <thisjukeboxplays33...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> I was born in the summer of my twenty-seventh year,
>
> > and I left yesterday behind me.
>
> Might say you were born again?

Dear god, let's not run into any Muppets, K?

On Oct 1, 4:24 am, SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Telamon wrote:
> >  SFTV_troy <SFTV_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Phil Kane wrote:
>
> > > > Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --
>
> > > Doubtful.  Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
> > > staring at a computer.  I've been saving every penny, such that I will
> > > be able to retire at 40-45.  Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).
>
> > > Engineering is dull.
>
> > Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
> > marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
> > Eduardo.
>
> I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying.  For example when I
> was in college I worked for Sears.  They instructed me to "sell
> extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
> thought it was un-necessary.
>
> Sears didn't like me very much
> - what with telling the truth.
>
> > I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
> > your posts indicate.
>
> If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
> about the subject of electronics/electrical devices.  For example:
>
> - Do you know what VHDL is?
> - How about a state machine?
> - Synchronous DDR?
> - PCI Express?
> - Flip-flop?
> - What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
> - What are constraints?
>
> This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
> work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
> what it's about.  And that's fine.  Because I don't expect one person
> to know everything there is to know about EE.

I know I just bought me a Pioneer laserdisc player that blows PS
fuses, Pioneer DVD/CD 5-disc carousel and Wednesday a Sony CRT
projector then a replacement board and maybe the case, $50 and then
some and a Sony ST-80F tuner (the stand up kind with a round dial).

Do I know if Windows XP is or actually isn't posessed by Linda Blair
and Damien Thorne? Beats me, I cannot beat my computer.

On Oct 1, 8:44 am, Stratum <stratum...@comcast.net> wrote:
> SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
> > I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.
>
> Lurking on-air personalities who want to know what the
> intelligentsia are saying about them.  We are the
> intelligentsia.  We're from outer space and France.

We are from France but we left and the details must remain MURKY.

In article <1191177766.532265.183800@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com wrote:
>I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
>I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
of frustrated old people around here.

Well, I'm 58.

greg

On Oct 1, 3:24 am, SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Telamon wrote:
> >  SFTV_troy <SFTV_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Phil Kane wrote:
>
> > > > Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --
>
> > > Doubtful.  Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
> > > staring at a computer.  I've been saving every penny, such that I will
> > > be able to retire at 40-45.  Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).
>
> > > Engineering is dull.
>
> > Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
> > marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
> > Eduardo.
>
> I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying.  For example when I
> was in college I worked for Sears.  They instructed me to "sell
> extended warranties" I complied, but I also told the customers that I
> thought it was un-necessary.
>
> Sears didn't like me very much
> - what with telling the truth.
>
> > I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
> > your posts indicate.
>
> If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
> about the subject of electronics/electrical devices.  For example:
>
> - Do you know what VHDL is?
> - How about a state machine?
> - Synchronous DDR?
> - PCI Express?
> - Flip-flop?
> - What does GCLK mean in the context of FPGAs?
> - What are constraints?
>
> This is just a small sample of what I know, because this is what I
> work upon every day..... but I suspect a lot of it you have no clue
> what it's about.  And that's fine.  Because I don't expect one person
> to know everything there is to know about EE.

SFTV,

None of which is required for the RRS Newsgroup.

Just turn on an AM/MW Radio or a Shortwave Radio
and Listen to it.

Buy a AM & FM Shortwave Radio - Listen To It !

Buy / Build a Shortwave Antenna and/or AM/MW Loop Antenna
and Use It !

Become and "Avid" AM/MW and Shortwave Radio Listener (SWL) !

-Or- Become an Amateur {Ham} Radio Operator.

The name of the Newsgroup is : Rec.Radio.Shortwave
It's about the Hobby of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL)
and Broadcast Radio Listening (BCL) both of which are
Free and Over-the-Air.

-IF- You are 'interested' in Internet Radio WiFi Radio etc
There is the : Alt.Internet.Radio Newsgroup.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.radio/

Also there are Newsgroups Focused on IBOC "HD" AM/FM Radio
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/6bb362877f49b42a

hope this helps ~ RHF
 .

In article <fdr4rb$naf$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, zekor@comcast.net (G) wrote:
>In article <1191177766.532265.183800@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com wrote:
>>I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>>
>>I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.
>
>On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
>or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
>It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
>of frustrated old people around here.
>

I know, the young are busy talking on the cell phone or are on the Ipod, are 
saying blogging, and awesome.

Well we used to say Groovy, and Far Out, and used pay phones.

greg

On Oct 1, 9:18 am, ze...@comcast.net (G) wrote:
> In article <fdr4rb$na...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, ze...@comcast.net (G) wrote:
> >In article <1191177766.532265.183...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
> >>I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

I'm 51 and have lived in the Bay Area all my life. I studied
Broadcasting at CSM back in the 70's, when they still had a hands on
program with Dan Odum. KCSM was on channel 14 and still in Black and
White. KCSM-TV  had the ability to go color, at least on a part time
basis, but they purposely stayed in Black and White to give the
illusion of broadcast poverty, in order to help secure a grant to
increase power and to change frequencies to channel 60. The plan
worked remarkably well. They got everything they wanted, but the
students ended up getting shafted. Luckly that happened after I
graduated!

"SFTV_troy" <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1191193629.521249.267510@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> John Slade wrote:
>>
>>      And I agree, that's why I have a nonsense answer. Age has nothing to 
>> do
>> with it. I've met young folk who act really mature and older people who 
>> act
>> like little kids.
>
>
>
> I'm seeing a lot of those "older people acting like kids" right here
> on this group (insulting one another).
>

     You know what? I made that same observation years ago...

John

On Oct 1, 8:47 am, ze...@comcast.net (G) wrote:

> On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
> or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
> It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
> of frustrated old people around here.

10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums.  In fact, 15 years
ago there wasn't a Web as we know it.  Google Groups may have been the
salvation of Usenet.

Actually, someone operating a for-profit news server could build some
market share by touting the uncensored nature of Usenet.  They could
sell access and news clients for those people who don't have them.

There are free NNTP servers as well as fee based NNTP servers

this is yet one more more no nothing post for a no nothing jerk

what the F'K does this have to do with  *.audio.* ???

get lost lamer

arthur



On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:17:01 -0700, David Kaye
<sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Actually, someone operating a for-profit news server could build some
>market share by touting the uncensored nature of Usenet.  They could
>sell access and news clients for those people who don't have them.
>

"David Kaye" wrote ...
> (G) wrote:
>> On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
>> or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
>> It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
>> of frustrated old people around here.
>
> 10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums.  In fact, 15 years
> ago there wasn't a Web as we know it.  Google Groups may have been the
> salvation of Usenet.

OTOH, the view from Usenet is that Google Groups may be the
death of Usenet.  In much the same way as AOL was a great blow
to the internet.  i.e. suddenly foisting thousands of illiterate users
onto the service and significantly raising the level of chaos.

> Actually, someone operating a for-profit news server could build some
> market share by touting the uncensored nature of Usenet.  They could
> sell access and news clients for those people who don't have them.

Yes, people have been doing this for years and they have a large
and growing customer base.  Many smaller ISPs outsource NNTP
service to large commercial providers such as Supernews, et.al.

Google Groups user interface is so desperately bad, I don't see
how anybody can tolerate it.  The real thing, even with a lowest-
common-denominator newsreader like Outlook Express is so
much faster, more direct, more convenient, more efficient, it isn't
even a close comparison. 

In article <1191234242.595596.65500@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>,
 SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com wrote:

> Telamon wrote:
> >  SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Phil Kane wrote:
> >
> > > > Perhaps after he has 40-50 years of experience --
> > >
> > > Doubtful.  Engineering is boring; you sit in a damn cube all day long,
> > > staring at a computer.  I've been saving every penny, such that I will
> > > be able to retire at 40-45.  Or semi-retire (only take jobs I like).
> > >
> > > Engineering is dull.
> >
> > Well you took a wrong turn didn't you but it's never to late to get into
> > marketing where you can lie your ass off. It's very exciting, just ask
> > Eduardo.
> 
> 
> I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying.

That's an impossibility.

> For example when I was in college I worked for Sears.  They 
> instructed me to "sell extended warranties" I complied, but I also 
> told the customers that I thought it was un-necessary.
> 
> Sears didn't like me very much
> - what with telling the truth.

That would be an expected result.
 
> > I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
> > your posts indicate.
> 
> If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there is to know
> about the subject of electronics/electrical devices.  For example:

< snip >

Not really. Just what you promote.

-- 
Telamon
Ventura, California

"David Kaye" <sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1191277021.361835.40140@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 1, 8:47 am, ze...@comcast.net (G) wrote:
>
>> On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
>> or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
>> It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
>> of frustrated old people around here.
>
> 10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums.  In fact, 15 years
> ago there wasn't a Web as we know it.  Google Groups may have been the
> salvation of Usenet.
>

Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least as far back as 1983, 
with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem (even the crude graphics 
of the era took forever to load. The bad old days of CompuSlave et al when 
net time was charged by the minute (about two dollars IIRC). Even then, the 
forums were very popular, taking over the job that was mostly done by BBS's.

Brenda Ann wrote:
> "David Kaye" <sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > 10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums.....
>
> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least as far back as 1983,
> with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem



Sorry hun, but that's NOT the world wide web (which is based-upon
multiple servers & using Hypertext Markup Language & active point-n-
click links).  What we used on the old commodore 64 was a SINGLE
server called a BBS, and it didn't use hypertext, or a mouse..  It was
just plain-jane text.   (Yes even on the C64, it was text.... but it
was drawn to look like pictures.)

That's what Usenet is - all text
It's like visiting an old BBS.

The world wide web was not invented until circa 1993, and did not
"boom" until around 1995 (with Windows and Mac-based Mosaic &
Netscape).  And thus was born web-based forums which slowly but surely
drew people away from the "boring" Usenet.


> (even the crude graphics of the era took forever to load)

Yeah.  There's a huge difference between 56k and 0.3k.  It used to
take me an hour to download a 170 kilobyte floppy.  Now I do it in
about 5 seconds.

On Oct 1, 11:18 am, ze...@comcast.net (G) wrote:
>
> >On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young people do not use,
> >or do not like to use USENET. Perhaps they are somewhere else.
> >It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. And, there is a lot
> >of frustrated old people around here.


I suspect if you took this poll in a "hip" group like rec.arts.tv or
alt.tv.smallville, you'd find a lot of young people.  It would still
skew older, but there'd also be lots of teens and 20-somethings in the
mix.

On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com> wrote:

> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least as far back as 1983,
> with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem [....]

No, you're wrong.  There was no Web in 1983.  Usenet existed in 1983,
but the Web was not invented until 1990, and it was not practical
until Mosaic in 1992.  I called attention specifically to the Web
because the growth of Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen
into disuse.

Telamon wrote:
>  SFTVratings_troy@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I've worked in sales, but I tried to avoid lying.
>
> That's an impossibility.

James Cash Penney would disagree with you.  (He was an extremely
religious and honest man - he even refused to accept credit cards, on
the grounds that he thought it wrong to drive people into debt.  He
would rather lose a sale than do that.)




> > For example when I was in college I worked for Sears.  They
> > instructed me to "sell extended warranties" I complied, but I also
> > told the customers that I thought it was un-necessary.
> >
> > Sears didn't like me very much
> > - what with telling the truth.
>
> That would be an expected result.

Uh huh.  Good thing I became an engineer - I wouldn't be able to work
for long lying to Sears' customers.


>
> > > I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than
> > > your posts indicate.
> >
> > If you think one person can possibly know EVERYTHING there
> > is to know about the subject of electronics/electrical devices.
>
> Not really. Just what you promote.


Just because we don't share the same opinion, does not mean one of us
is idiotic.  That premise is false Telemon.  It could be that we are
both 100% correct (with respect to targeting different interest
groups).  You are correct that AM is better for long-distance
listening for old people.

And I am correct that young people want many, many more stations on
the dial (they like variety).

We are both correct.










.

"David Kaye" <sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1191313941.624544.282400@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least as far back as 
>> 1983,
>> with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem [....]
>
> No, you're wrong.  There was no Web in 1983.  Usenet existed in 1983,
> but the Web was not invented until 1990, and it was not practical
> until Mosaic in 1992.  I called attention specifically to the Web
> because the growth of Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen
> into disuse.

Not this time cowboy.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

"
The first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational by January 1, 1983 
when all hosts on the ARPANET were switched over from the older NCP 
protocols to TCP/IP. In 1985, the United States' National Science Foundation 
(NSF) commissioned the construction of a university 56 kilobit/second 
network backbone using computers called "fuzzballs" by their inventor, David 
Mills. The following year, NSF sponsored the development of a higher speed 
1.5 megabit/second backbone that become the NSFNet. A key decision to use 
the DARPA TCP/IP protocols was made by Dennis Jennings, then in charge of 
the Supercomputer program at NSF."

Brenda Ann wrote:
> "David Kaye" <sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1191313941.624544.282400@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least as far back as
> >> 1983,
> >> with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud acoustic modem [....]
> >
> > No, you're wrong.  There was no Web in 1983.  Usenet existed in 1983,
> > but the Web was not invented until 1990, and it was not practical
> > until Mosaic in 1992.  I called attention specifically to the Web
> > because the growth of Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen
> > into disuse.
>
> Not this time cowboy.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet
> "first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational by January 1983"


Bzzz.

We're not discussing the internet (which has been around a long, long
time).  We're discussing the World Wide Web, which sits inside
browsers called Mosaic, Netscape, Explorer, Firefox, Safari, et
al..... and uses hyperlinks to jump from one server to another server.

THAT was not invented until circa 1992, and did not "boom" until
around 1995 when Mosaic/Netscape hit Windows and Macintosh machines,
and lots of users started experimenting with it for the first time.

The WWW did not exist in the 1980s.
We've told you this several times.
Please try to listen.



If you still are not convinced, try to imagine stepping into a time
machine, and carrying your modern-day PC back to 1990, and signing-up
with an Internet Provider.  Would your web browser work?

No.

It absolutely would not work, because web-servers did not exist back
then.  The WWW had not been invented yet.

"Brenda Ann" <brendad@shinbiro.com> wrote:

> 
> Not this time cowboy.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet
> 
> "
> The first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational by January 1, 1983 
> when all hosts on the ARPANET were switched over from the older NCP 
> protocols to TCP/IP. In 1985, the United States' National Science Foundation 
> (NSF) commissioned the construction of a university 56 kilobit/second 
> network backbone using computers called "fuzzballs" by their inventor, David 
> Mills. The following year, NSF sponsored the development of a higher speed 
> 1.5 megabit/second backbone that become the NSFNet. A key decision to use 
> the DARPA TCP/IP protocols was made by Dennis Jennings, then in charge of 
> the Supercomputer program at NSF."
> 

That's TCP/IP.  Hate to side with these guys, but they're right this
time.  The World Wide Web and HTTP were invented in 1990 by Tim
Berners-Lee.

-- 
Eric F. Richards, efricha@dim.com
"It's the Din of iBiquity." -- Frank Dresser

"Brenda Ann" <brendad@shinbiro.com> wrote in message
news:64KdncEEu_x0c5zanZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@giganews.com
> "David Kaye" <sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1191277021.361835.40140@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 1, 8:47 am, ze...@comcast.net (G) wrote:
>>
>>> On these newsgroups, I get the impression the young
>>> people do not use, or do not like to use USENET.
>>> Perhaps they are somewhere else. It was not like this10 to 15 years ago. 
>>> And, there is a
>>> lot of frustrated old people around here.
>>
>> 10 to 15 years ago there weren't Web-based forums.  In
>> fact, 15 years ago there wasn't a Web as we know it. Google Groups may 
>> have been the salvation of Usenet.

> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least
> as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
> acoustic modem (even the crude graphics of the era took
> forever to load.

Usenet?

There were other networks of BBSs in those days.

There was no pracical, widely usable web in the 1980s.

This is typical of histories of the web:

http://www.w3.org/History.html

From it, the web seems to date back to the early 1990s, maybe 1992 or 1993.

>The bad old days of CompuSlave et al
> when net time was charged by the minute (about two
> dollars IIRC).

Been there, done that.

>  Even then, the forums were very popular,
> taking over the job that was mostly done by BBS's.

The trouble with local BBSs was the lack of traffic.

There were national and regional BBSs like  ExecPC that addressed that 
problem. 

"David Kaye" <sfdavidkaye2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1191313941.624544.282400@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least
>> as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
>> acoustic modem [....]
>
> No, you're wrong.  There was no Web in 1983.  Usenet
> existed in 1983, but the Web was not invented until 1990,
> and it was not practical until Mosaic in 1992.  I called
> attention specifically to the Web because the growth of
> Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen into
> disuse.

Agreed. 

"Eric F. Richards" <efricha@dim.com> wrote in message
news:amc4g31s8jhvoubfvhvgh2puajtgqdgq4a@4ax.com
> "Brenda Ann" <brendad@shinbiro.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Not this time cowboy.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet
>>
>> "
>> The first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational
>> by January 1, 1983 when all hosts on the ARPANET were
>> switched over from the older NCP protocols to TCP/IP. In
>> 1985, the United States' National Science Foundation
>> (NSF) commissioned the construction of a university 56
>> kilobit/second network backbone using computers called
>> "fuzzballs" by their inventor, David Mills. The
>> following year, NSF sponsored the development of a
>> higher speed
>> 1.5 megabit/second backbone that become the NSFNet. A
>> key decision to use the DARPA TCP/IP protocols was made
>> by Dennis Jennings, then in charge of the Supercomputer
>> program at NSF."
>>
>
> That's TCP/IP.  Hate to side with these guys, but they're
> right this time.  The World Wide Web and HTTP were
> invented in 1990 by Tim Berners-Lee.

Agreed. 

On Oct 2, 10:07 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote:
> "David Kaye" <sfdavidka...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1191313941.624544.282400@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
>
> > On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least
> >> as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
> >> acoustic modem [....]
>
> > No, you're wrong.  There was no Web in 1983.  Usenet
> > existed in 1983, but the Web was not invented until 1990,
> > and it was not practical until Mosaic in 1992.  I called
> > attention specifically to the Web because the growth of
> > Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen into
> > disuse.
>
> Agreed.

Wait a minute...Arpanet was around and operational long before 1990.

Roadie wrote:
> On Oct 2, 10:07 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com> wrote:
> > "David Kaye" <sfdavidka...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1191313941.624544.282400@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com
> >
> > > On Oct 2, 12:10 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >> Sure there were.  I was using web based forums at least
> > >> as far back as 1983, with my Commodore 64 and a 300 baud
> > >> acoustic modem [....]
> >
> > > No, you're wrong.  There was no Web in 1983.  Usenet
> > > existed in 1983, but the Web was not invented until 1990,
> > > and it was not practical until Mosaic in 1992.  I called
> > > attention specifically to the Web because the growth of
> > > Web-based forums is the reason Usenet has fallen into
> > > disuse.
> >
> > Agreed.
>
> Wait a minute...Arpanet was around and operational long before 1990.



We're not discussing ARPAnet.  We're discussing the WWW.

What you are doing is equivalent to saying "Ipods existed in the 80s!"
just because some MP2s existed back then.

On Oct 2, 4:16 am, "Brenda Ann" <bren...@shinbiro.com> wrote:

>
> Not this time cowboy.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet

The Internet is not the Web.  I haven't said word one about the
Internet.  Go back and look.  I am talking *solely* about the Web.
The Web didn't exist until 1992.

This is an important difference because Usenet predates the Web, which
was my whole point all along.  Actually, Usenet slightly predates the
Internet as we know it.

On Sep 30, 2:42 pm, SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.

> 0 and < 100  I'm a Personal Consumer Consumption Facilitator

On Sep 30, 2:42 pm, SFTVratings_t...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm 35.  Engineer.  And you?
>
> I'm curious about the demographic that occupies these groups.


Old enough.  I'm a Personal Consumer Consumption Facilitator

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Brenda Ann" <brendad@shinbiro.com> wrote in message
>
> >  Even then, the forums were very popular,
> > taking over the job that was mostly done by BBS's.
>
> The trouble with local BBSs was the lack of traffic.
> There were national and regional BBSs like  ExecPC
> that addressed that problem.


Also national nets like Usenet and Fidonet.  Usenet is still alive-and-
well thanks to News servers being integrated into the WWW browsers,
but Fidonet is essentially dead since BBSes don't really exist
anymore.  (There's still a few, but none local to my area, and I'm not
going to call long-distance.)

Those networks were cool.  You would go visit, for example
rec.arts.startrek, read & reply to messages, and then log off.  During
the night the messages would travel across the phonelines.  And the
next morning you would have a fresh batch of messages.

Things moved a lot slower back then.  Typically if you asked a
question today (Oct 2), you had to wait until Oct 3 to receive the
replies to it.

BTW:



Here's the oldest message I could find.  I got a modem in late 1987,
and was posting to Usenet throughout 1988, 89, and so on, but
apparently those messages never got archived.  Oh well.  This message
was posted just prior to my high school graduation..... sooooo long
ago.  ;-)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.startrek/browse_frm/thread/1163f568ceec580b/

From: troy@rhutch.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek
Subject: Trek symbols
Date: 27 May 91 15:07:23 GMT
Organization: Rabbit Hutch BBS, East Earl, Pa., (717)354-5027
Lines: 16


>The change from the "one ship one symbol" to everyone wearing the
>"Enterprise Arrowhead" is supposed to serve two functions. The first, (not
>totally cannon) is that it is to celebrate that the Enterprise was the only
>ship to make it back to earth after its five year mission, in completely
>good shape, where as other ships barely made it back, or not at all.

Exactly what do you mean by "one ship one symbol"?   Did each ship
have
its on triangle?   I thought the Arrowhead was the symbol of the
Federation
and was universal among all Starfleet starships?  Why was Enterprise
crew
the only to wear the arrowhead?
--
...rutgers!devon!rhutch!troy (Troy Heagy)
Rabbit Hutch BBS -- +1 717 354 5027

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 01:14:52 -0700, SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I suspect if you took this poll in a "hip" group like rec.arts.tv or
>alt.tv.smallville, you'd find a lot of young people.  It would still
>skew older, but there'd also be lots of teens and 20-somethings in the
>mix.

We were all teens and 20-somethings once.  
--
Phil Kane
Beaverton, OR