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In article <C07G4F.Kxn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
>bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:

>>>There has been a lot of discussion on "do I really need a 200 watt amp"
>>>I have seen responses like " a (""better sounding") 100 watt amp can
>>>sound better than a 200 watt amp.

>>When you do the math properly, it sometimes comes out to be
>>cheaper to buy more efficient speakers than buy the amount of
>>power you need.   

> Quite correct. Problem is that most of the good speakers produce around 86dB.
> Of course, you can always buy Cerwin-Vega speakers; with an efficiency of
> 100dB you could play really lound even with a K-Mart receiver.


Playing loud isn't the whole answer.  Playing loud and accurately is.

That being said, let me destroy any credibility I have on the net by
saying I have heard good Cerwin Vega speakers.  Really!      

But they wouldn't sound good connected to a K-Mart receiver, that's for
sure.  I bought a set about 15 years ago, maybe more.   They sounded so
good at the demo - it was a mall wide affair where all audio dealer
participated and CV themselves had things set up.    I went home and
brought some of my LP's.   Really decent.   So I bought the pair.
Somewhere about $800 then.

I took them home and was heart-broken.  They sounded like crap - to put
it mildly.    So I tried changing a few things.  Out with the Dynaco
pre-amp.  Hm!   Voice sounds better.   Out with the Garrard changer.
Better.   Replaced ?? cartridge with a Micro-Accoustics eletret 630MP -
about $300 in 1977 dollars.   Amazing.   They really are pretty decent
speakers, BUT they showed up every flaw in the system.

CV and one or 2 other make highly efficient speakers that are
affordable.    In the Audio October Equipment issue - I just visually
scanned the loudspeaker area.   Most of the CV's are close to
$1000/pair.

There are 2 or 3 other mfrs that list 100db spl at 1 watt at 1 meter
who have some cheap speakers.

However the majority of the highly efficient speakers are $1000 and
up.   WAY UP!.   Up to $75,000 per pair.

And the efficient Apogges are in the $30,000 per pair range.

Now - if you have never heard high quality highly efficient playing
dynamic audio - you have really missed something.   Note I said 'audio'
and not music.

On 2 separate instances, listening at high levels, my body wanted to
invoke the 'fight or flight' syndrome.   One was a locomotive
recording, the other was the jet flyby from Digital Domain.

With wide range speakers, highly efficient, and power in the 200 w/p/c
range on peaks - your body and your mind told you two different things.
Your body wanted to run, because you were about to be hit by a
locomotive while your brain said no - that's coming from the
loudspeakers.  

The body gets confusing clues.   On lesser systems you either limit the
dynamic range on the low end - where you feel the sound and not hear
it, or there are distortions that tell your body/brain that you are
hearing a recording.     These things sounded real!

I don't know if you'd ever need this much to handle just music,
particularly a string quartet, but on non-music it was really amazing.

I remember in the early days of "HI-FI" that the standard jokes
revolved around things like never listeing to music, just locomotives
and such.

I have always beleive in efficient speakers with sufficient power.   My
current speakers are recording studio monitors (I spent a lot of time
in studios at one part of my life).   I have a set of Fostex LS-3As.
(Fostex makes some expensive high end stuff too - not just the cheap
little multi-tracks they seem to be known for).   Rated at 103
db/1w/1m.   UGLY!!!   Heavy - 170 lps.    A studio in town has their
LS-4s.   To get an idea of size of those, picture two 18-20 cubic foot
refrigerators laid on their sides, with horns and a slot radiator
tweeter grafted to the top.   

The only speakers I have seen that were bigger than those were the
Tannoy "Dreadnaughts".  GAWD they were HUGE!.   Memory dims over the
years, but they had either 4 or 5  15" woofers per cabinet.  They were
supposed to be control room monitors but you'd have to have an awfully
big room to put those in there.


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill@bilver.uucp
                - ..!{peora|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill