🚀 go-pugleaf

Hi there,
  There's nothing preventing anyone from using a 3 season tent in the
snow. It just depends on the conditions you might encounter. You only
need a 4 season tent if you can expect to encounter high winds or heavy
snowfall. A 3 season tent can handle most situations with no problem.
If you're below the treeline, you should be fine.

My .02,
Murray Z


In article <pJda5.32624$N4.1265758@ozemail.com.au>,
  "Marsh" <mtwilk@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> A friend of mine has a Eureka Gemini tent and she's not sure if this
is a 4
> season tent? We are thinking of taking it into the snow and I've never
seen
> it and can't find any literature on it. Does anyone know if it's a 4
season
> tent or not?
>
> Thanks,
> Marsh.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Dean Williams wrote:
> There is a simple way to find out if it is a three or four season tent.
> Three season tents always have large areas of noseeum netting on the
> inner tent, while four season tents have smaller areas of mesh that are
> in turn covered by closeable nylon flaps.  A true four season tent must
> be more sealable that a three season, or else you could freeze to
> death.
Very good point.

> Someone else in the thread mentioned the other qualities of four
> seasoners, these being steeper sidewalls, beefier poles and materials,
> better wind and snow shedding, etc.  
And if the poles are on the ouside, it's a 3-season tent. 4-season
needs poles on inside for wind stability.

> I have another question:  I live in
> Canada, where you need a 4 seasoner in the winter.  In Australia, where
> could you go where you would need a 4 season or expedition tent?
Ha!
Anywhere high in the Snowy Mountains (our central alpine region) at
any time of the year. Or in the Southern Alps (Victoria) or in
South-West Tasmania.
There is a long long large valley (the Murray) leading to the Snowies,
and it runs parallel to the worst weather. You want 100kph winds? Any
time of the year. You want vortex-shedding at 100kph? No problem. You
want to lose a tent in the middle of the night? No problem (although I
have avoided that one). Similar comments for the other regions.
Check your map, and see what lies between the Australian East Coast
and the Antarctic. Not very much....


Cheers
Roger Caffin

I just replied to the inquiry - they're in OZ, so perhaps the names
are different. They asked about a tent so I responded.

Murray Z

In article <8kdmjj$i5a$1@nina.pacific.net.au>,
  "Glen Fergus" <gfergus@LEAVE.THIS.OUT.ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> <murrayz@gemstone.com> wrote in message
news:8kd25d$vht$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Hi there,
> >   There's nothing preventing anyone from using a 3 season tent in
the
> > snow. It just depends on the conditions you might encounter. You
only
> > need a 4 season tent if you can expect to encounter high winds or
heavy
> > snowfall. A 3 season tent can handle most situations with no
problem.
> > If you're below the treeline, you should be fine.
>
> Good advice...
>
> A search at google.com for "Eureka Gemini" suggests that this is a
pack,
> not a tent.  Sure of the name???
>
> Glen F.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

James Horne wrote:
> With my "4 season" Sierra designs tent I virtually always leave the entire
> roof panel of the inner tent unzipped when I am snow camping.

   With you mentioning the ventilation thing and falling frost in your
face in the middle of the night, it's probably what people should do.
Your only going to gain about 10 f. with a tent anyway and loosing a few
degrees isn't going to make that much difference.

> The real "warmth" in the equation must surely come from the sleeping bag.

   I'd say, your bag and your clothes. By that I mean, if you don't want
to have to crawl in the bag as soon as you stop moving, you need some
warm clothes also.

> So, if you carry a shovel and can erect
> decent walls around your tent site, why not take a reasonably robust 3-season
> tent for the purpose? 

   It'd be those horror stories you mentioned, a good example would be
the storm that did in the four snowboarders last season in OZ. I'm not
talking the boarders themselves, just that storm.

   For walls, I like this picture from an expedition to Denali:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~qtluong/gallery/slides-alaska/mk30.jpeg
They are not mine, just a web page.

> As long as it withstands the wind in this situation and
> you check your weather outlook carefully before you go there would be a number
> of tents that would fit the bill nicely.  In the end it probably comes down to
> insurance.  i.e. "What happens in the worst case scenario?" 

   Well in this case, I have a little insider information and know that
Marshall is a bushwalker and is going to try out something close to the
parking lot for his first winter trip. The worst case would be, having
to bail out and getting lost in a white out. With the 100 mph winds that
Roger was talking about? But I don't think this would happen if they are
close to the parking lot and in the trees. I think I would stay in some
thicker snowgums like what is on this cam picture from Guthega. To stay
out of the wind and avoid the hazard of a white out:
http://www.ski.com.au/info/snowcams/perisher4.html

> You usually get
> what you pay for as far as tent quality is concerned, though I'm sure people
> have horror stories!
> 
   And so it goes.

> I've never had to sleep in lower than -12C. Anyone been lower than this?  

   Lowest temperature? 18yrs ago and our second snow cave trip. It was
-20 f. in Longmont, Colorado [elevation 5,000] and we built our cave at
11,000 ft. We were wet and fatigued from digging the cave but still
managed ok. It was a trip that won't be forgotten.
   Now we pray for colder temps. and never get them. Maybe Fairbanks?
   50% have big....:
http://www.grandshelters.com/images/igloo-aus-s2.jpg
   Cheers,

   Ed Huesers
   http://www.grandshelters.com

Howdy All

With my "4 season" Sierra designs tent I virtually always leave the entire
roof panel of the inner tent unzipped when I am snow camping.  I have always
preferred the ventilation improvement that comes with just having the noseeum
mesh above me.  I've been doing this for around 10 years and at various times
during the Winter in NSW and the Victorian High Plains and never felt even
remotely that there was a likelihood of freezing to death!  It also prevents
the formation of fine condensation/frost on the tent inner which flutters down
on your face every time a gust of wind strikes the tent!  While I am glad I
have the option to be able to seal the tent up nice and tight, I place far
more importance on the stability of the said tent in windy conditions, snow
shedding and rain-proof properties.  The real "warmth" in the equation must
surely come from the sleeping bag.  So, if you carry a shovel and can erect
decent walls around your tent site, why not take a reasonably robust 3-season
tent for the purpose?  As long as it withstands the wind in this situation and
you check your weather outlook carefully before you go there would be a number
of tents that would fit the bill nicely.  In the end it probably comes down to
insurance.  i.e. "What happens in the worst case scenario?"  You usually get
what you pay for as far as tent quality is concerned, though I'm sure people
have horror stories!

I've never had to sleep in lower than -12C (according to a dodgy alcohol
thermometer +/- 20C?!!) so far in Oz.  Anyone been lower than this?  This
isn't a competition, I'm just interested in real experiences!

Cheers

James

James Horne wrote:
> 
> Howdy All
> 
> With my "4 season" Sierra designs tent I virtually always leave the entire
> roof panel of the inner tent unzipped when I am snow camping.  I have always
> preferred the ventilation improvement that comes with just having the noseeum
> mesh above me.  I've been doing this for around 10 years and at various times
> during the Winter in NSW and the Victorian High Plains and never felt even
> remotely that there was a likelihood of freezing to death! 

No, "freezing to death" is not something you have to worry about in the
Australian snow country if you've got decent shelter from the wind, and
provided you keep dry.  We're not talking about several dozen degrees
below zero like our Canadian friend presumably was.

The principal (only?) reason for using "four-season" tents here is wind
resistance, when camping above the treeline.

John.
> 
> I've never had to sleep in lower than -12C (according to a dodgy alcohol
> thermometer +/- 20C?!!) so far in Oz.  Anyone been lower than this?  This
> isn't a competition, I'm just interested in real experiences!
>

Yep, -20 C on at least 2 occasions.  Sleeping waas great, eating fine,
and getting out of the sleeping bag was so-so.  Bowel movements were
AWFUL.  (I stll shrink just thinking about it.

Dean.  (Winter camping now avoided.)
> I've never had to sleep in lower than -12C (according to a dodgy alcohol
> thermometer +/- 20C?!!) so far in Oz.  Anyone been lower than this?  This
> isn't a competition, I'm just interested in real experiences!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> James

Possibly worthy of a separate thread in itself - the observation that
the ability / willingness of individuals to put up with different
levels of cold in the outdoors.....I can be standing around in winter
(and not in the snow) in several layers of thermals (long johns
included), warm jacket, overpants, a balaclava AND a beanie (okay, so
I'm a wimp), whilst some others in the party are quite happy to be
wearing quite a lot less, and not necessarily hugging the campfire,
and / or using a quite lighter sleeping bag.....admittedly they end up
with a lighter pack, but even so.....