Opinions on "Red Dog"?

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4 total messages Started by Harv R Laser Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:05

#1928

Author: Harv R Laser
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:05

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What's the general opinion of the group mind here on the card game
known as "Red Dog" (also referred to as Acey Ducey, or In-Betweens,
or Between the Sheets)? 

[for those reading who've never heard of it, the table looks
sort of like a BJ table but the game is completely different.
You place a bet (usually $2 minimum, tho can be $1 at some houses),
dealer draws two cards. At this time you can stand on your bet
or raise up to your first bet but not beyond it). Dealer draws
third card. If third card falls between the first two, you win
usually even money payoff unless the first two cards had a small gap
between them in which case payoff can increase to 2-1, 3-1, 4-1,
5-1. In the case the first two cards are a pair, you cannot raise
your bet, but if the third card makes it a triple, payoff 
is 11-1. If third card doesn't fall between the first two, you lose
your bet (and your raise if any). Non-tripled pairs are a push.

At any rate, during CES, I found Red Dog tables at Vegas World
(Single Deck) and at the Flamingo Hilton (six deck shoe) and
sat at the Hilton table playing on my original $20 buy in for
nearly six hours. Hey.. time flies :)

I got my $20 up to about $100 at one point but then pissed it
away back down to $2, then back up to $60 or $80 when I finally
cashed out and left. The pit boss came by the table a few
times and once mentioned "if you only bet the minimum $2
you'll sit here for a week and never win more than $60." 
He was basically right. 

But I found the game to be a fun time-waster. A huge number
of lurkers stopped to watch and ask "What is that game?!" and a
few times the table filled up to capacity, which made it a lot more
fun, especially the few times the dealer hit a Red Dog (triples)
and had to pay out 11-1 to seven players :)

An initial draw of Ace - Duece (the widest possible spread, 
Ace always being high) is about as close to a "sure thing" in this
game, but it's also pretty amazing how often the third card
comes up Ace or Duece, meaning a loss. Anyway, I just was curious
if there are any other Red Dog fans in this group and if you have
any good strategies/tips to offer. The game doesn't seem to have
a lot of subtleties.. it's fairly simple minded. And very few
casinos in Vegas offer it.. certainly no more than one Red Dog
table at each place that did. 

Harv

Re: Opinions on "Red Dog"?

#1938

Author: Steven R Jacobs
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:00

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In article <30339@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>
>   In article <74154@cup.portal.com>, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
>> What's the general opinion of the group mind here on the card game
>> known as "Red Dog" (also referred to as Acey Ducey, or In-Betweens,
>> or Between the Sheets)? 
>
> I'm sure that someone with more exact knowledge than I can give you
> the specifics but everything I have read indicates that it is a big-time
> sucker bet intended to draw people who are totally clueless about
> playing cards and who would otherwise be too intimidated to play
> blackjack for example. I have a book at home which gives the actual
> house advantage but if memory serves it was well into the double digits.
> I could be wrong but I sure seem to remember something like a 12 or 14%
> advantage for the house. Anyone know for sure?

It isn't that bad, not even close.  The house edge for Red Dog is a bit
less than 3%, the exact edge depends on the number of decks.  Better
than Roulette, even using CQM5 ;-)  The game is beatable by computer
when played with a single deck and a large bet spread, but is typically
dealt from a 5 deck shoe.

--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."

Re: Opinions on "Red Dog"?

#1930

Author: Gary L. Newell
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:21

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In article <74154@cup.portal.com>, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
> What's the general opinion of the group mind here on the card game
> known as "Red Dog" (also referred to as Acey Ducey, or In-Betweens,
> or Between the Sheets)? 

 I'm sure that someone with more exact knowledge than I can give you
the specifics but everything I have read indicates that it is a big-time
sucker bet intended to draw people who are totally clueless about
playing cards and who would otherwise be too intimidated to play
blackjack for example. I have a book at home which gives the actual
house advantage but if memory serves it was well into the double digits.
I could be wrong but I sure seem to remember something like a 12 or 14%
advantage for the house. Anyone know for sure?

> But I found the game to be a fun time-waster. A huge number
> of lurkers stopped to watch and ask "What is that game?!" and a
> few times the table filled up to capacity, which made it a lot more
> fun, especially the few times the dealer hit a Red Dog (triples)
> and had to pay out 11-1 to seven players :)

 If the odds are as bad as what I read then I'd probably rather kill time
on a BJ table but I suppose for a change it isn't bad ( you certainly
don't have to do much thinking) though I'd rather try the double-down
stud that was discussed here recently.... 

> An initial draw of Ace - Duece (the widest possible spread, 
> Ace always being high) is about as close to a "sure thing" in this
> game, but it's also pretty amazing how often the third card
> comes up Ace or Duece, meaning a loss. Anyway, I just was curious
> if there are any other Red Dog fans in this group and if you have
> any good strategies/tips to offer. The game doesn't seem to have
> a lot of subtleties.. it's fairly simple minded. And very few
> casinos in Vegas offer it.. certainly no more than one Red Dog
> table at each place that did. 

 I saw one or two tables at Slots of Fun when I was there in december.
Not much action on them - they usually closed by 10PM and had only
a handful of folks on them before that.

			gln

> 
> Harv

Re: Opinions on "Red Dog"?

#1951

Author: Gary L. Newell
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 08:33

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In article <JACOBS.93Jan22170058@cells.cs.utah.edu>, jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
> It isn't that bad, not even close.  The house edge for Red Dog is a bit
> less than 3%, the exact edge depends on the number of decks.  Better

 This is of course correct. I should have kept my mouth shut until I had
a chance to look at my source. Having since done so, I did not
see anything similar to what I had thought I saw  - frankly I'm not
sure where I got this idea except that I did see some weird oriental
game that had bad odds - I'm very sorry about this - I'll have to keep my
mouth shut or keep my source in the office before responding again :-)

			gln

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