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3 total messages Started by Steffan O'Sullivan Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:25
Re: net.rpg: magic.ideas
#596
Author: Steffan O'Sullivan
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:25
122 lines
6455 bytes
I posted this a couple of weeks ago, before this thread started, but no
responded - perhaps it never made it out to the net.  So here it is
again . . .   I had called it META RPG: Magic Systems in General or
something like that . . .

----------------

Let's examine what folks want in a magic system.  Everyone who plays a
genre with magic can play this game, and it will be useful to both
FUDGE and the net.rpg folks.

Here's what I want:

1) An alternative to a list of spells.  If some folks want a set list,
fine: they can have one.  But any system I play has to have the other
option available.  In my experience, a set list of spells leads to
stagnation, no matter how large the list.

2) Some way to encourage the magician not to use the same spells all
the time.  This can be either carrot or stick, though carrot is nicer.
(Example of stick method: "You lose some sanity for casting the same
spell twice in one gaming session."  Example of carrot method: "+1 to a
spell you haven't cast in this gaming session yet.")

3) No automatic magic results, at least for humans, except for magic
items.  While I fully admit this is not in keeping with magicians of
legend, it makes for a better game, I believe.

What else should be here?

Next topic:  what types of magic to emulate?  Well, what types have you
got?

As I see it, there are:

1) Real magic, as studied by anthropologists and people like Bonewitts.
2) Legendary magic, as told in myths and legends from around the globe.
3) Folklore magic, a subset of the above that tends to be simplified
   and even purified.
4) Fictional magic, which can be broken down into at least two subtypes:
	4A) Pre-RPG
	4B) Post RPG

Taking them one at a time:

1) Despite the fact that Bonewitts wrote a game book based on this, I
find it's not really suitable for gaming.  These rituals are very slow
and elaborate, often requiring a lot of paraphernalia.  Bonewitts
splits magic up into over 20 separate laws.  Frazer (1890) only used
two: the Law of Contagion and the Law of Similarity.  Mauss (1903)
renamed the Law of Contagion the Law of Contiguity, and added a third:
the Law of Opposition.  These can be summed up as:

Law of Contiguity:  Each one is the whole and the whole is in each
one.  This allows affecting a subject if you have his fingernail
clippings, a piece of hair, scrap of clothing, etc.  Subjects can be
non-sentient, even inanimate: you can grow a whole tree from a piece of
bark; you can recreate a house from just a nail.  It also allows for
augury: the whole pattern of the universe is contained in the pattern
of the stars, or in the way your tea leaves settle in your cup, or the
draw of tarot cards, etc.  Further uses of this law include creating a
fireball from a small flame, or Death from a bone, or poison a man by
poisoning the food he left on his plate, and so on.  You can become a
different shape if you have part of it: wearing a bear skin turns you
into a bear, for example.

Law of Similarity:  Like produces like; like cures like.  This law
allows you to fashion a likeness of someone or something, then affect
it by acting on the likeness.  Burning a doll is a good way to kill
someone in this type of magic.  Likewise, grinding a powder from a
sword that wounded you, then drinking a potion containing the powder
will cure you.  Lighting a small fire will create a bright light, and
so on.  (Yes, I know that's the same result as you can get with the law
of Contiguity.  This fact didn't bother primitive magicians, though.)

Law of Opposition:  Opposite drives away opposite.  To beat back a
flood, light a match and chant the appropriate ritual.  Goodness drives
out evil: food (life-giving substance) spread on a wound will drive out
the Death it represents.  And so on.

Oddly enough, Mauss and Frazer feel that it doesn't matter whether the
agent that accomplishes the magical task is a summoned entity or some
hidden controlling power of nature: that's just the vehicle, and is
irrelevant for their discussions.  Bonewitts splits summoned entities
into two different categories, however.

2) Legendary Magic: this is also tough to game.  Usually these are very
powerful magicians, or heroes who have been granted one or a few gifts
(sometimes internal powers, sometimes merely magic items) who never
seem to fail in their magic.  At least, the stories don't mention it.
They cast spells and the spells happen as they wish.  Magic is limited
to a few, but is very potent.  Sometimes a hero will have only one to
three powers, but they will still be powerful: flight, invisibility,
and a sword that never misses are examples.  Some stories do involve
limited number of uses: three wishes, or you may become invisible three
times only, etc., but that makes it rough for gaming with an on-going
character.

3) This is the toughest to game: Magic is usually just "wishes come
true," or involves never-failing items or otherworld companions (often
animals) who advise the hero exactly how to behave.

4B) Out of order, but I wish to dispense with it immediately: I don't
like most of it.  It seems to be influenced either by roleplaying games
directly, or by other literature that is influenced by roleplaying
games.  The magic in it bears little resemblance to any of the other
categories, and seems mostly derived from games.  Obviously, there are
exceptions - those I'll simply lump in with 4A.

4A) Here's where it gets interesting, to me.  This includes Arthurian
literature, the Charlemagne cycle, Ariosto, Spencer, and many later
authors such as MacDonald, Dunsany, Tolkein, Howard, deCamp, Morris,
Leiber, Kutner, Moore, Vance, Anderson, Bellairs, LeGuin, etc., etc.

The advantage of fictional sources instead of legendary is that
magicians are more human in fiction: they have flaws, they sometimes
fail.  Sometimes the magic doesn't work, which is very nice for gaming
purposes.

I've blathered long enough - time to let someone else say something.
-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Re: net.rpg: magic.ideas
#485
Author: John H Kim
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:05
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	Right, so there has been alot of talk about "magic" here recently, 
and now that I'm done with finals, I would like to say a few things about 
it. Obviously, almost all of us want different things from a magic system. 
That's fine. I've played using Hindu ascetic magic, Chinese magic charms, 
European witchcraft, a magic system based in Platonic ideas (in the Old 
West!), magic based on manipulating an other-dimensional machine, magic 
based on flow of power (from Ley lines, spirits, or blood), magic based 
on knowledge, and many more. 
	The important thing is not what magic *should* be like (which is 
clearly a matter of taste), but how to get what you want out of a magic 
system. Here are some of my thoughts on how to construct a magic system 
for an RPG you are working on. 
	Ask yourself a number of questions: 

1) Where does the power come from? 

	Ultimately, there needs to be a cause for magic. In terms of 
game mechanics, the question of 'why' is not that important, but a good 
answer will add enormously to the 'feel' of a magic system. The power of magic 
may be a flow of some energy guided by biological beings, or based on mystical 
correspondances, or anything else. 
	Note that the practitioners of magic need not know the details of this 
basis, nor do different practitioners need to agree. However, people will by 
nature ask 'why', and they will find or invent answers. If you want to retain 
a mysterious feel to magic, then it is best that these answers be vague, 
incomplete, and/or contradictory. Even better is if you have details which the 
players do not - so there is a mystery to how magic works beyond just 
randomness and GM whim. 

	The source of magic is easiest to invent in worlds which have a 
distinct cosmology. For example, in Ursula Le Guin's 'Earthsea' trilogy, magic 
is done by speaking in the true langauge, which was what the Creator spoke to 
name and define the world. The nature of the world guides the definition of 
magic. 
	In other cases, use your imagination: magic can be done by guiding a 
flow of energy through your nerves and body, or it can be done by manipulating 
nodes of power which associate themselves with certain qualities, etc. 
Remember that there can be more than one 'magic' phenomena in your world, 
each of which has its own source and patterns. A campaign in medieval Europe 
may have a cabalistic magic of spirits, power words, and numerology 
distinguished from the primitive charms of witchcraft. 


2) Who can use it? 

	In many systems, some people will be more able to use magic than 
others. The question is: what makes them so special? Ability in magic may be 
an inborn talent, or just knowledge and skill, or a gift granted by spirits, 
or gods, or other mages. 

3) What are they like?

	That is, what distinguishes mages from mundanes and from each other? 
What are the attributes and skills which define a person's magical abilities? 
Here we get into the meat of the system. 
	The attributes can be extremely diverse. Any inborn talent involved in 
magic should be defined here. Perhaps there is an inborn potential for sheer 
power of spells, but control and accuracy are learned skills. OTOH, it may be 
that like the Force, control of magic is instinctive, but you must learn to 
tap into the power it provides. 
	It generally makes it easier in a campaign with PC mages if magic is 
something learned or improved rather than entirely inborn. This way, the 
mage's power can increase with experience like the mundane PC's. 

	Skills are much more tricky. First, divide your magic up into whatever 
subdivisions and specializations you can think of: enchantments, illusions, 
charms, etc. Many recent systems do this by distinguishing skill into Actions 
and Objects: Actions are skills in doing certain operations with magic, 
Objects are what is acted upon. So a magical command might be the action of 
'Control' and the object of 'Mind'. This allows a wide variety of abilities 
with fewer skills. One can also define Modifiers: skills which alter or 
enhance effects. There might be a skill to make spells last longer, or a 
skill in accurately directing spells, or in making them act at further ranges. 
	An important thing to keep in mind here is the degree to which your 
system encourages specialization. Many GM's prefer a magic to be highly varied 
in their games. It is then important that it should be easier and more 
effective for a mage to diversify than to increase his power. The best advice 
I have for this is to put yourself in a player's shoes, and try to think of 
how you would build your mage. If neccessary, introduce a graded cost to 
skills or attributes, so that it is easier to improve a low skill than a 
high one. 
	A simpler alternative is just talking to your players and asking or 
forcing them to take abilities in a manner you prefer. 

4) How do they do it?

	That is, what is involved in using magic. Do practitioners speak words 
of power to cast spells? Or do they carve runes and empower them with their 
blood? 
	It could be words and gestures simply serve as tools for concentra-
tion, and it is only the thoughts of the mage that really matter. This view 
is often taken by more modern views of magic. However, be careful about this, 
because if a mage can cast spells by thought alone, it means there is no way 
for mundanes to 'disarm' him short of killing him. 
	Try to think of details here: how long does it usually take to work 
magic? Many systems distinguish 'spells' which take only a few seconds, 
'rituals' which take several hours, and 'enchantments' which take weeks. 
Others just give benefits from longer times taken. 
	What effects does working magic have upon the caster? Is he fatigued 
physically or perhaps mentally? Does he lose the magical energy he has 
collected? Remember that it is often important for game balance that magic 
take a significant amount of time to cast or to recover from. 


5) What does it do? 

	Here is the trickiest part. Now that you have a set of attributes and 
skills, how do your determine what a mage can do? 
	You could simply lump together the involved skills in some way, and 
then roll that against a difficulty determined by a GM estimate of how tough 
the spell is. However, the more guidelines and examples you give, the more 
players will be encouraged to use and experiment with spells. In addition, 
off-the-cuff GM estimates tend to judge the spell on how much it effects game 
balance rather than how it fits into the principles you have developed. This 
can lead to inconsistancies, such as when the exact same effect is more 
difficult when it is more central to the plot. 

	It is possible, but very difficult, to set up a more objective 
difficulty scale. As an example, I developed a difficulty scale for spells in 
my 'Dreamworld' campaign. Magecraft, as it was called in this game, was based 
directly on how much you knew about the target. The base difficulty for the 
initial roll was then judged on a scale like this: 

Dif-	  Knowledge-
 0	Object Talent: knows everything humanly possible about the target
 5	Familiar/Well Known: a casual friend, a old servant, a household 
	  object (has interacted with for a long period of time)
10	Detailed: a good briefing on the target, and has had significant 
	 interaction with it. 
15	Basics: has interacted with the target for a short time, or has 
	 observed it for a long time, and has some additional information
20	Just perceived: a cursory inspection, and nothing more

Perception Modifiers: 
  +0	Target is in close sight
+1-+3	Distantly or indirectly seen
  +3	Not seen but heard or felt 
  +5	Not perceived at all


	This way, the players had a consistant estimate of how difficult 
they thought a spell should be. Magic was rarely a sure thing, however, 
because the intended targets would often have unrevealed secrets - so the 
level of knowledge was often less than the mage thought. Note that this 
completely changes the nature of game balance: magic does not conform to 
game balance here, but rather defines it. 

6) How are they viewed by others?

	That is, what is the position of practitioners in society. Are they 
leaders of the community, like shamans, or are they reviled and burnt at 
the stake? Or are they somewhere in between. 
	While not a part of the magic system per se, this is very important 
to the role which magic will play in your campaign. 

------------

	Whew. That's about it for now. This is by no means a complete 
document - rather something I threw together this afternoon after getting 
out of exams. Hope it doesn't bore everyone too much. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "ALERT: /Earth is 75% full - please delete 
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | all extraneous people."
Columbia University         | 
Re: net.rpg: magic.ideas
#513
Author: Steffan O'Sullivan
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 02:23
6 lines
680 bytes
Just a quick note to thank John Kim for his list of things to consider in
magic systems.  I was pleased to see that I had covered 90% of them in
FUDGE 12/12, and I quickly added the rest - thanks!

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
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